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[This message has been edited by Lowdown (edited 11-16-2003).]

I don't think Kano was either...savior or ruiner (is that a word?)...anyway, he was into athletics and developed a Jujutsu based art...Kodokan Judo. Judo should not really effect how one looks at Jujutsu, IMO. Jujutsu schools are still around...if that's what one is looking for...find Jujutsu. My opinion...after trying Ving Tsun, Praying Mantis Kung Fu, Bujinkan, Yoshinkan Aikido, Tang Soo Do, Tae Kwon Do, and Shotokan (very shortly with Shotokan), my honest opinions are that Judo is the best...for me. I honestly feel that if I got in a fight today..even though I have more Tang Soo Do experience than anything...I would rely mostly on my Judo. We train 'alive' and that is a great confidence/skill builder...just ask JKogas. I train with guys trying very hard to NOT let me throw them...and they are trained to defend. Against some average guy in a self-defense situation, or even a skilled fighter, I am very confident I can put them down with a lot of force. PrideFC is not real fighting, but it is pretty close...look up the names Yoshida and Fedor. They make it work against very skilled opponents more times than not...Yoshida is 4 wins/1 loss...the loss was to the current light heavyweight champ and it went the distance. Fedor is 14 wins/1 loss...the loss was to a TKO because the doctor stopped the fight for a cut. Bottom line, Kano did not necessarily hurt or help Jujutsu...but did a lot for a lot of people (including me), then and now, by developing Kodokan Judo (the sport based on Jujutsu).

thnx for ur opinion immrtldragon.cheers and good luck in ur judo lol [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

i agree, kano gave everyone a way to practice jujutsu safely and alively...he helped jujutsu!! (even if its only "part" of jujutsu" and he also gave us jujutsu guys another perstective on throwing!!
and like dragon said...jujutsu is still here, so he didnt ruin it at all.

I'm going to come down on the side of saviour before ruiner (I really hope that is a word..I've been using it all day, at any and every opportunity and it's got me some strange looks [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]). Why? because I think Jujutsu was dying on its feet before Kano revolutionised its training and sparked fresh interest in it.

Jujutsu owes it's existance purely to the need to fight, and once that need goes so the need for jujutsu ceases. Of course there would always be a few enthusiasts who would keep training, but the majority of people would have no interest in keeping the art alive. Kano sensei offered more than a way of fighting. He introduced his style of judo into schools and argued that it was good for children to train, thus opening up a whole new generation to martial arts training. Without Kano I think jujutsu would have become ever more obscure until it eventually died out.

Budo