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#116801 - 06/18/03 02:02 PM Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Judokid Offline
Member

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 184
I have posted this topic on Judoinfo.com, and the results were tremendous!! This topic is different than the topic of is it effective. this is the next stp. Who else has used it in a real situation?? What throws really work in fight on concrete? See Judoinfo.com, under Techniques and also Questions in the Discussion for more info. (hundreds read--please help make this thread a good one!!)

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#116802 - 06/19/03 11:34 AM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
Good question. If I understand correctly, you're asking which techniques have actually been used to good effect outside the dojo?

Well, for my part one of favourites has to be Osoto gari. I love that technique and find it works most of the time, mainly because it is fast, dynamic and powerfull. It is also quite simpple to apply and to follow up from if needs be.

I also favour seoi otoshi for when I'm being pushed back. Again, a simple technique that can be quickly applied and forced through if things don't go according to plan. I have to confess to finding it a surprisingly difficult throw to get the hang of at first, but perseverence paid off and now I love it.

Budo

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#116803 - 06/19/03 03:56 PM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
kempo_jujitsu Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 1914
Loc: illinois, usa
ive used a good ol fashioned hip throw with good results i think it was the pavement as opposed to the technique that made the difference though lol

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#116804 - 06/21/03 02:02 PM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
I like variations of tai-otoshi. They work well for me. I am tall so it is harder to get ogoshi or ippon seio-nage. Other throws I have used are tani-otoshi and yoko-otoshi.Ed www.lonewolfjujutsu.com

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#116805 - 06/24/03 09:55 AM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
I always think tai otoshi is a much under rated throw, and I think this is because it is more technical than people give it credit for. How many times when learning it did you end up on your backside, or find yourself having to haul uke across your leg like a sack of coal? personally, I favour the kneeling version of the throw, how about you?

Budo

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#116806 - 06/24/03 10:07 AM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
Try kneeling but instead of keeping your foot planted, sweep it back. If the uke doesn't know how to breakfall, he will land on his head. Keep close to uke and keep the sweep low. Contact is made on the lower part of his shin. Your foot never leaves the ground. Just slides backwards. Ed www.lonewolfjujutsu.com

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#116807 - 06/25/03 01:13 PM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
I'm not sure how that works, Ed. I think I've misunderstood something, it seems like the technique you're describing is a guruma rather than a drop. Where am I going wrong?

Budo

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#116808 - 06/30/03 08:00 PM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
kman Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/03
Posts: 368
Loc: minnesota
I'll weigh in with 2 faves. osoto gari for when he's moving away and tai otoshi for when he's coming in. falling down hard on the pavement usually stuns an opponet long enough for me to step back and get some safe space or to gain control of an arm so I can roll him over for cuffing. The draw back to either throw for me is that they land on their backs and we cuff them on their bellies. My other very useful technique is to sweep them forward so they fall face down while i retain control of one arm.(is there a judo name for that?). In my line of work I scrap on a fairly regular basis. I find that having a small repitore of relible technique is preferable. I dont get to spend a lot of time at the dojo so streamlining has been effective.

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#116809 - 07/02/03 01:00 PM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Judokid Offline
Member

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 184
Thanks for your replies so far. In resonse to your question, kman, there is a Judo arm lock in which you lock their arm and land on them when they sweep, probably knocking the wind out of them as they fall on their stomach. Try buying a judo handbook or textbook-it should be in there. I don't know what it's called off the top of my head. A favorite (aikido) move of mine that I saw in a book is like that, except you put pressure on the elbow. Doen't always work against a squerming person, in my, comparatively little experience.

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#116810 - 07/09/03 07:14 AM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
Taking the discussion forward a litle, I find Judo pins can be very ineffective, and sometimes downright foolhardy, for street situations. Does anyone have any experience of successfully pining an attacker by using one for real?

Budo

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#116811 - 07/09/03 01:05 PM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
I don't know if my comments will take the discussion forward or not, but I believe judo is one of the few martial arts that gives (in relative safety) full contact fighting against an unwilling opponent.

The judo players I've trained with pinned me, choked me, arm barred me, threw me, and generally made my time on the mat very unpleasant. (Great training)

I also have a guy who trains in karate with me who also holds a 3rd dan in judo.
When we spar I spend all the time I can, trying to keep him off me. If he gets hold of me, and I don't mean in a lock or anything, it hurts. If he grabs my Gi he usually grabs a good lump of flesh at the same time. My standard defense to all this is to say, "please let go, that really hurts!"

My point though, is that what judo does give you, is a physical and psycological toughness that is not the case in a lot of MA's.

That in itself, regardless of the techniques, gives a huge advantage.

JohnL

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#116812 - 07/09/03 02:18 PM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
kempo_jujitsu Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 1914
Loc: illinois, usa
agreed! judo if nothing else will surely toughen your ass up!! and teach you to apply the techniques on an actively moving, and resisting opponent...not to mention a skilled one at that who is also trying to throw, lock, choke or pin you at the same time you are trying to do the same to him.

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#116813 - 08/17/03 10:07 AM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Judo is a great art BECAUSE they train against people who actually resist their attempts.

What do "bad guys" do in real fights? They resist! Any art which has you practice against non-cooperative opponents will put you ahead of the game and will help you when you need it. Judo is definitely one of those arts.

-John

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#116814 - 08/19/03 09:09 PM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Remandman Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 64
Loc: Canada
I like Judo, I studied it as a youth for seven years before getting into Karate. I must say in every real life situation I have been in, I have used what I learned in Judo more than Karate. Why? Probably because the opportunity presented itself and the way the fight went. I only have punched a few times, normally throw, choke or an arm lock in situations worked. In extreme cases, a punch to a "soft spot" like the throat, eyes, ear, kidneys, floating rib work too.

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#116815 - 02/24/04 05:23 PM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
pablo Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/23/04
Posts: 20
Loc: santa cruz, california, US
If a guy is coming in with a punch to my body or
head, my favorite method involves blocking
that arm, entangling it, grab his head, hair,
collar whatever you can get a hold of, and
do an O Soto Gari on him. Follow it up with
an armbar if you need to or run if you can.
Remember, if you can steer his head, his body
will follow.

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#116816 - 03/12/04 08:43 PM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
backwardwalker Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/11/04
Posts: 6
Loc: fl,usa
Judo can be the strongest art for real fighting if you train to use a clinch first. In real fights you have to grab hold and stop the person from hitting you. Then you can throw them. Forget about using kicks and groin or shin kicks. When you are moving around you don't have any balance. Another thing to learn is wrestling takedowns from a standing position.It's simpler and faster than judo throws but not quite as safe to use because you have to let go of one or both grips which allows the opponent to slip away or strike you.

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#116817 - 03/20/04 07:17 AM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
This may be common sense (or in fact already mentioned), but definitely work on your standing clinch. Learn the wrestling moves (as have already been said) and, work your BOXING skills! (and please don't neglect to put TIME into your mat work!)

Each range affects the others in turn. Having good boxing ability makes it easier to obtain a clinch. Having a good clinch game makes it easier to control, throw and work on the ground to control a resisting bad guy.

Be well-rounded in other words.

-John

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#116818 - 03/22/04 12:00 PM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
judodoc Offline
Member

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 152
Loc: Charlottesville VA USA
Koshi guruma, headlock throw, from a clinch or from one handed grip from outside.
If clinched and can't unbalance forward, osotogari, and can be done with malice if needed. OUCH.

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#116819 - 03/24/04 10:13 AM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
VJ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/16/04
Posts: 146
Loc: San Diego, CA
JohnL the "physical and psycological toughness" mentioned isn't quite the point. I think we need to focus on which techniques have been successfully employed on today's streets where everyone isn't sporting a gi.

This is an excellent topic because it is asking for actual vice theoretical experience. Something that I can't advise you about since I've never used a technique in an actual situation.

[This message has been edited by VJ (edited 03-24-2004).]

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#116820 - 04/12/04 04:47 PM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
MorpheusRS Offline
Member

Registered: 08/28/03
Posts: 50
Loc: Israel
My background is greco-roman, muay-thai, sambo and judo,
I have used o-soto gari, o-goshi, koshi guruma and quite a few wrestling takedowns.
extremely effective if done with the "punching helper", grabbig the clothes and punching the head while throwing.. gets the job done.

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#116821 - 04/13/04 03:01 PM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
VJ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/16/04
Posts: 146
Loc: San Diego, CA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MorpheusRS:
My background is greco-roman, muay-thai, sambo and judo,
I have used o-soto gari, o-goshi, koshi guruma and quite a few wrestling takedowns.
extremely effective if done with the "punching helper", grabbig the clothes and punching the head while throwing.. gets the job done.
[/QUOTE]

Thank you Morpheus!!! Grappling mixed with some kind of strike increases surviving. Sport judo with its dependence on closing the gap to throw isn't enough. Elbow, knee, kicking, etc,. all make a complete fighter. Traditional judo is nice and great sport. However why wait until a person gets to black belt to teach strikes? Also the need to train without a gi like wrestlers do can only increase judo's effectiveness.

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#116822 - 08/19/04 09:20 AM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Anonymous
Unregistered


I like o soto garai, and murotei seio-nagi(spelling)(double are sholder throw)

if I am being stabbed or punched at the stomach I love shiho nage

oni kudaki is cool to. tricky but I like it.

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#116823 - 08/20/04 12:43 PM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
VJ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/16/04
Posts: 146
Loc: San Diego, CA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Neo_ryu:
I like o soto garai, and murotei seio-nagi(spelling)(double are sholder throw)

if I am being stabbed or punched at the stomach I love shiho nage

oni kudaki is cool to. tricky but I like it.
[/QUOTE]

Have you actually used these techniques on the streets?

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#116824 - 08/22/04 05:48 PM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Lokkan-Do Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 1411
Loc: Ontario, Canada
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JKogas:
This may be common sense (or in fact already mentioned), but definitely work on your standing clinch. Learn the wrestling moves (as have already been said) and, work your BOXING skills! (and please don't neglect to put TIME into your mat work!)

Each range affects the others in turn. Having good boxing ability makes it easier to obtain a clinch. Having a good clinch game makes it easier to control, throw and work on the ground to control a resisting bad guy.

Be well-rounded in other words.

-John
[/QUOTE]

How long have you been taking Judo?

Just curious...

[This message has been edited by Lokkan-Do (edited 08-22-2004).]

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#116825 - 08/26/04 10:38 AM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hey everyone , great topic . But i have a question is there anyway to get you to explain these throws with out using the proper names ? Sorry, but my father took judo and started teaching it to me from an early age and I find it very effective in many situations . However he never told me the proper names and i have no idea what you are talking about . We always just used names like circle throw , hip throw , choke escape , ect ect . Thanks for the info Artos lol you know maybe on the other hand i should learn the proper names

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#116826 - 08/27/04 11:15 AM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
immrtldragon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 1540
Loc: Just outside Philadelphia, PA
If you want to learn the proper names, go to www.judoinfo.com . There is a techniques page that shows animations of the moves with their proper names.

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#116827 - 08/27/04 02:57 PM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Anonymous
Unregistered


cool , thanks man

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#116828 - 09/04/04 02:45 AM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cato:
Taking the discussion forward a litle, I find Judo pins can be very ineffective, and sometimes downright foolhardy, for street situations. Does anyone have any experience of successfully pining an attacker by using one for real?

Budo
[/QUOTE]


Pins are great because you can control someone where they are relatively helpless. From there you have several options. You can go for an armbar or easily punch the heck out of him - if he puts his hands in front of his face to block your punches he is open for an armbar too. You can hold him down, or simply get up and run away if need be.

Pins are great because it gives you control of the guy. If you didn't have control then he would simply just get back up and fight you again!

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#116829 - 09/04/04 02:53 AM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by VJ:
Also the need to train without a gi like wrestlers do can only increase judo's effectiveness.[/QUOTE]


It can but its not absolutely necessary to train without a gi. Virtually any judo throw can be done gi-less simply by clinching or "bodyhugging" the guy. If you're experienced judoka it should come natural to you when the need arises.

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#116830 - 09/30/04 08:42 AM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Anonymous
Unregistered


Don,t forget KataGuruma. It's a bit difficult to preform, but it has devestating effect.
(I haven't actualy preformed it in real fight, but i did use it when we were "goofing" around.)

The only real situation i've heard of when a friend's friend used uchimata on a security guard.
(I,ve heard this from very reliable source).

Otherwise judo is very street effective just bacuse "bad guy" never expects judo moves.

(Sorry my english)

[This message has been edited by Bojevnik (edited 09-30-2004).]

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#116831 - 09/30/04 09:22 AM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Anonymous
Unregistered


i dont study judo but umm... i think that any throw where u stand up and dont hit the ground would b good on concrete, (eg hip throw, osoto gari)

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#116832 - 11/29/04 11:19 AM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Anonymous
Unregistered


Iīve been in a few serious situations and Iīve found judo very effective. In our school there is a guy who is kinda OK, but he pisses of way too easy. Once when he was pissed he attacked me completely without a reason and tried to run over me, taking me down to the ground. I crabbed his right arm into my armpit(donīt know if itīs armpit. Im from Finland if you even know where it is and my english is far from perfect [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]) and his left wrist with my right hand and threw him backwards with sasaetsurikomeashi. I followed him down landing on top of him and letting air out of his lungs. Then I kept him in the ground with a very tight yokoshihogatame and released him only after he had calmed. I think he had never been thrown like that.

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#116833 - 11/29/04 11:25 AM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Anonymous
Unregistered


By the way I`m new on this forum and I must say that this is my favourite site(with judo info ofcourse)

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#116834 - 11/29/04 06:28 PM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Anonymous
Unregistered


I saw an early UFC fight where this judo guy blocked this wild looping punch and went right into soto makikomi and followed him to the ground; holding onto his striking arm with both of his.
Once he was on the ground he left go with one hand and elbowed the guy until he was unconscious. It was beautiful. I never forgot that and have practiced it several times since.
I don't think uchimata is a bad one either. Since often times you can go right into kesa gatame once you have completed the throw.
Don't forget uranage. You uranage somebody on the pavement... fights over.
Any type of footsweep is good, nobody expects them.
Basically, I don't think there's too many judo throws that aren't practical in the street. It's all situational.
Oh yeah, if I was going to do osoto gari in the street; I would modify it and elbow the guy in the face as I come across.

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#116835 - 12/01/04 08:26 PM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Anonymous
Unregistered


it was remco pardue that that nailed the maki-komi in the ufc. i'll never forget it either. it was the only time i saw that guy fight. he later tapped out to marco ruas after being mounted, but before getting pummeled. i learned two lessons from that guy.

1) maki komi rocks
2) LEARN HOW TO PLAY THE GROUND GAME WITH STRIKING RULES!!!!

tony

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#116836 - 12/03/04 10:22 AM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Anonymous
Unregistered


Judo is great for Finnland I guess, where you are in clothes all the time,

but try Austria or Hungary, where half-year one is with, half without clothes,

well, in the summer half of a judoka's feeling of security might just as well evaporate,

so one should preferebly know a few tricks without clothes.

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#116837 - 12/03/04 10:36 AM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Anonymous
Unregistered


some o'them in topic Alternative judo...

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#116838 - 12/03/04 01:28 PM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gerginekov:
Judo is great for Finnland I guess, where you are in clothes all the time.[/QUOTE]

Hey! we arenīt eskimos [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG](no offence to the eskimos)We do also have summer when you can wear T-shirt and shorts. Well ofcourse itīs naturally easier to throw if you can get a good grip of glothes, but allmost all judo throws are effective without glothes. I do agreed with that you should be well rounded.

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#116839 - 12/03/04 03:55 PM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Anonymous
Unregistered


I like to underhook even when my opponent has clothing to grab.
It works well for osoto gari. Because as soon as you step in it lifts him up a little and puts all his weight on the leg your reaping.

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#116840 - 12/04/04 02:17 AM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Anonymous
Unregistered


I train mostly in Japanese Jujitsu, ive done some karate and kickboxing as well.

The only time ive used jj on the street I was grabbed outside a pub and tried an O-goshi which didnt work. Then used a technique that I can only describe as an Ushiro-goshi that put him down and knocked the wind out of him.

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#116841 - 12/06/04 07:32 AM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have used arm and wrist locks a few times, I have only performed one throw in a fighting situation, and it was purely reflex. My tokui waza is Uki Waza and as the guy rushed me it was natural to let him swing and then vanish underneath him. Might not be the smartest throw (esp if he has mates) as you are left lying on the ground, but as I said, it was reflex.

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#116842 - 12/21/04 11:10 PM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ivan:
I saw an early UFC fight where this judo guy blocked this wild looping punch and went right into soto makikomi and followed him to the ground; holding onto his striking arm with both of his.
Once he was on the ground he left go with one hand and elbowed the guy until he was unconscious. It was beautiful. I never forgot that and have practiced it several times since.
I don't think uchimata is a bad one either. Since often times you can go right into kesa gatame once you have completed the throw.
Don't forget uranage. You uranage somebody on the pavement... fights over.
Any type of footsweep is good, nobody expects them.
Basically, I don't think there's too many judo throws that aren't practical in the street. It's all situational.
Oh yeah, if I was going to do osoto gari in the street; I would modify it and elbow the guy in the face as I come across.
[/QUOTE]

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#116843 - 12/21/04 11:23 PM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you Ivan. I must say that in alot of styles I question how a particular move may be worth using, or I may think to myself how stupid I think it is, but fact is, I haven't mastered any style and neither am I a beginner as I have studied quite a few styles, but every street situation is different requiring different applications. For someone to say that a particular style is useless is absurd. On the ground, I can guarantee that I can hold my own. Some schools don't pay as much attention to groundwork as others, but some do, I assure you. As for throws, I would absolutey hate to be the idiot messing with a judoka and not realize it. One throw to the asphalt and we're talking potential knock out or other serious injury. I may not like some styles, but you will never hear me knocking them because as sure as I do, one of those moves that I think are stupid, will be the one to get me. [QUOTE]Originally posted by X-Dohigh:
I train mostly in Japanese Jujitsu, ive done some karate and kickboxing as well.

The only time ive used jj on the street I was grabbed outside a pub and tried an O-goshi which didnt work. Then used a technique that I can only describe as an Ushiro-goshi that put him down and knocked the wind out of him.
[/QUOTE]

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#116844 - 12/22/04 01:24 AM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
Anonymous
Unregistered


Merry Christmas, masters of judo, all around the planet...

...may next year yield progress for each of you in the field of this most fascinating of sports!!!

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#116845 - 01/07/05 12:14 PM Re: Practical Street Judo--PLEASE Contribute
gus Offline
Member

Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 67
Loc: dixon calif.usa
in my dojo a couple of teenagers wanted to learn to use judo for fighting.i refused.one pushed me (i am 72)i took him down with hiza garuma,caught his head just before he hit the mat.they never came in again..a prison guard (san kyu) use osotogari.and the prisoners watching clapped.push pull whatever it takes.

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