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#116626 - 11/19/04 05:20 AM Re: Is Judo street effective
Anonymous
Unregistered


I agree that chokes and throws are effective techniques when in a 1 on 1 situation. Most of us here are martial arts practitioners and would have no problem taking down a lone dude. I am talking about situations where you have multiple opponents. By the way, Tony, you mentioned gross motor skills and choke techniques. Chokes when applied incorrectly can be fatal especially when you have only gross motor skills during an adrelaline rush. Would you want to get into trouble with the law? In my opinion, Judo may be effective, but its grappling techniques must be coupled with strike techniques. First, a strike to the opponent to distract him, them a throw to finish him off.

Benjamin

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#116627 - 11/22/04 07:49 PM Re: Is Judo street effective
Anonymous
Unregistered


benjamin,
that's a really terrific point. to be honest, i've never applied a choke under the "fight or flight" adrenaline rush, but i can see how easy it would be to miscalculate a couple of inches. the rush of a fight against an unknown opponent with no rules where you can't simply tap out if you can't win and where there is no ref to stop it if you get hurt is quite different from the rush of fighting in a tournament. i guess i should just continue to hope that i'm lucky enough not to be in a position to NEED to choke somebody in the street, and if i do, that i can do it from a calm "i'm winning, but this is end-game" position.
tony

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#116628 - 11/26/04 05:54 PM Re: Is Judo street effective
kiwi Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 789
Loc: Wellington New Zealand
Could you please provide information on how chokes are fatal (not in the you hold them till the brain runs out of oxygen or blood sense).

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#116629 - 11/27/04 03:31 AM Re: Is Judo street effective
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well-said macncheese. I, for one, wouldn't try to use pins and chokes on the streets. A pin is useless as you have to let go after some time. A choke is just the opposite but it is too fatal. Armbars may be useful but only on 1 to 1 situations. I may execute a throw on a thug as many of those punks on the streets wouldn't expect them. However, I would prefer hardening my limbs and using them to fracture.

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#116630 - 11/27/04 05:59 PM Re: Is Judo street effective
Anonymous
Unregistered


if a choke is applied with great force (such as under the influence of adrenaline and fear) INCORRECTLY, i.e. directly across the windpipe or adams apple, it can cause a collapse and suffocation, even after letting go of the choke. i've heard people talk about how they could break somebody's neck with a strong choke, but i think that's mostly bull-pucky. He-man might be able to do it, but i doubt even his little sister she-ra could.
tony

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#116631 - 12/05/04 04:49 PM Re: Is Judo street effective
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Benjamin:
Well-said macncheese. I, for one, wouldn't try to use pins and chokes on the streets. A pin is useless as you have to let go after some time. A choke is just the opposite but it is too fatal. Armbars may be useful but only on 1 to 1 situations. I may execute a throw on a thug as many of those punks on the streets wouldn't expect them. However, I would prefer hardening my limbs and using them to fracture. [/QUOTE]
Worng. Pins are very effective because it is a transitional position which gives you control of the opponent and a variety of options such as:
1. Moving into an armbar
2. Move into a striking position
3. Get up and flee or kick strike
4. hold the person down until help arrives
5. Basically many pins allow you to relatively safely hold your opponent down in a position of control where they are pretty helpless...From there it is your choice as to what you do.

Also, a choke is not "too fatal" although it CAN be if held too long.

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#116632 - 12/11/04 05:40 AM Re: Is Judo street effective
Anonymous
Unregistered


I said again. This is not a 1 on 1 situation.

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#116633 - 05/17/06 02:53 AM Re: Is Judo street effective [Re: UKfightfreak]
hugo Offline
Elvis Sharkey

Registered: 08/03/05
Posts: 134
Loc: I am not going to specify that...
Or you could knee him. Or better yet. When you kick if he tries to block it with the hand you're not controlling it takes his attention off the armbar, you use that time to snap the arm and make an escape.
_________________________
I'm starting afresh.

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#116634 - 05/17/06 03:10 AM Re: Is Judo street effective [Re: VJ]
hugo Offline
Elvis Sharkey

Registered: 08/03/05
Posts: 134
Loc: I am not going to specify that...
Quote:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Judo/JiuJitsu Info:

I agree as disagree with some of your points. Adversely, using tactical street smarts are more important in any given situation.

In regards to boxing, hmmm, so so, it's okay, but, you might not have come across a Muay Thai fighter, which has a combination of punches/elbows/knees and especially there shin.

Regarding Ali, great fighter during his time, his challenge wasn't probably taken seriously. ABC wide world of sports with the karate guy being bashed by the boxers. Karate is so, ummm commercial. It has its advantages but, i don't think it will do too well in street fights. As far as striking goes, Jiu Jitsu applies simple strikes as similiar to karate, open hand, straight punches, but then you have the additional chokes, locks and pins.

So if you really think about it Jiu Jitsu will have all acceptablity to street fight comparison. In today's world the average perp knows how to fight. So in regards to street fighting know what you can do upstairs as you do downstairs. Strengthen not with boxing, but with Muay Thai or just Jiu Jitsu.

Muliple attackers, depending on your experience and YOUR ATTACKERS. Let's think no weapons 2 guys, you've trained so many times, see the situation, divide them by degrees of aggressiveness, then plan the right defense or attack, and execute towards the second attacker. Done it.

3 attackers, as you can tell it becomes a bit harder. weapons or no weapons, as what you said evade and escape, but there are ways to defend against such amount.

4 attachers, whoo, what put you there in the first place.

5 call 911. j/k evade and escape is the smartest answer anyone can give you.

Boxing, I don't think so. Don't get me wrong, just your arms. Please look into UFC, Pride Fighting and or King of the Cage competitions where there were many golden gloves boxers and as well as former champions get seriously messed up.
[/QUOTE]

So should we conclude that boxing needs to be include as part of judo training for the streets? Just asking.


The key part here is in your opinion. Kickboxers have proven their ability to defeat boxers, as have boxers to kickboxers, do not delude yourself into thinking there is an "ultimate art" or that one art will always beat another if they are both on the same porfessional circuit. The key to success is perseverence, skill, mental and physical drive, dedication, and maturity and openess. People allow themselves to be deluded by thinking that one art is better than another or will always beat another. In the end it comes down to who is the better fighter, regardless of style. In a ring fight that is. Unless, however, there are other factors involved.

I'm saying this generally, not in response to this in particular. You just see it so much "a boxer can beat a Kung Fu person" "no but a Taekwondo person can" etc. it's ridiculous. People generalise far too much. Even at black belt level. Take a Judo black belt and a Taekwondo blackbelt, who is to say who is tougher. It is not clearcut. A black belt does not automatically make you both equal simply because you both have it. It is simply an indicator of skill. But... that indicator is taken more lightly at some clubs than others. There are always factors to deal with.

Hugo


Edited by hugo (05/17/06 03:16 AM)
_________________________
I'm starting afresh.

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#116635 - 05/18/06 12:45 AM Re: Is Judo street effective [Re: hugo]
Mr_Heretik Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 1074
Loc: Bronx NY, USA
Wow, revived a thread.

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