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#116566 - 03/12/03 07:11 PM Re: Is Judo street effective
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
If you have to grip a tshirt, try to grab the collar, as its reinforced.

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#116567 - 03/13/03 02:33 AM Re: Is Judo street effective
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
Most throws can be done without gripping clothing at all. Try training without gi jackets and I think you will be surprised at how easily it all comes together.

Budo

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#116568 - 03/13/03 11:55 PM Re: Is Judo street effective
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
Having recovered from 'time out' Cato is correct again. There are many times you can 'hook' an arm or neck and throw without grabbing. we use a couple of different neck throws and accomplish this by 'cupping' the neck and trying to place it between their legs, you are not grabbing anything, but in the same regard(and here comes my nasty side)instead of cupping the neck throw him by his hair.
One other little note, we use heel palm strikes as a facilatator in our throws. We heel palm the chin for a hip throw, so we don't have to grab. In many cases we substitute strikes for grabs in our throws.

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#116569 - 03/15/03 08:39 PM Re: Is Judo street effective
JMurray Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 8
Loc: Yokohama, Japan
Thanks, Sensei.
I've often wondered about that.
Next time I get the chance I'll try some gripless randori.

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#116570 - 03/18/03 06:37 PM Re: Is Judo street effective
JudoJohn Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 14
I also wondered about the street effectiveness of Judo. I am able to throw during practice, but the minute we move to randori, all bets are off. I can't seem to grasp the ju of judo. If someone is pulling you down to the front, how can you give way? When somenone is gripping you hard an attempting to throw you down, how can you stop this? Can someone please help?

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#116571 - 03/19/03 12:37 AM Re: Is Judo street effective
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
Here is just a thought. In the Judo/Aikido Arts you are taught to go with the opponets energy. So and this is just an option,go with his throw you and while you are going over(throw yourself, don't let him throw you)counter, and when you hit the ground continue the throw and throw him. we practice this from a O'Goshi, Koshi Nage whatever you want to call it. we use the weight of the thrower and when we hit, we continue to our side and throw. Some call this sutemi waza, or sacrafice throwing
Now I will step into some dangerous territory, Judo practice in the dojo can be applied differently on the street. There are no rues for the street. If someone is trying to throw you on the street-Bust'em, do some striking to stop his momentum. When you go to throw, you use kazushi(unbalancing) before the throw, well use your striking to unbalance the person who is going to throw you and counter. I don't know where you are in your training, but later on we practice reversing throws, by one taking the throw and continuing the throw on the thrower, or stopping his throw and creating your own.

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#116572 - 03/19/03 10:21 AM Re: Is Judo street effective
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
John,I'm sorry I don't know your MA history so it is difficult to offer advice without appearing a little patronising. Please forgive me if I do, It isn't intentional.

Lou is absolutely right, sutemi waza is an option when your balance is about to be broken. Also keep in mind the different directions in which you can throw your opponent. If you're being pulled, forward offer momentary resistance and then launch a counter that utilises the pull of you opponent. The obvious example would be O'soto gari, but there are so many others you can use.

The important thing is to develop a strategy to in your fighting to cope with being pushed or pulled in any direction. Remember also that some shime waza can be applied quickly whilst standing, and will often put an attacking opponent on the defensive very quickly, even if they are unsuccessull.

As for street fighting, it is my experience that untrained fighters usually fight off balance for most of the time, so a trained judoka has plenty of opportunties to apply techniques.

Hope that helps

Budo.

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#116573 - 03/19/03 06:41 PM Re: Is Judo street effective
JudoJohn Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 14
Cato/Senseilou,
Thank you for your suggestions. I am new to MA. Judo is my first attempt at the arts and I do enjoy learning it. I am about 9 months into training and obtained my yellow belt last week. Do you have any suggestions for good videos or books for home training? I have Kodokan Judo and Best Judo books and a tape from Steve Cunningham. Thanks again...

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#116574 - 03/20/03 12:02 PM Re: Is Judo street effective
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
Congratulations on the yellow belt, John. I always think the first one is the hardest to get, so you're on the downhill stretch already!!!

I'm not really a great fan of instructional video, and I don't have any myself. A good book for judo technique is: The A - Z of Judo by Syd Hoare. It contains just about every judo technique you'll ever need, as well as plenty that are banned in competition but form part of the original kodokan syllabus. There is also a series called "Judo masterclass" published by Ippon books that covers everything from shime waza to grips.

Enjoy your training and keep in touch

Budo

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#116575 - 03/21/03 12:15 AM Re: Is Judo street effective
Scholar Offline
Member

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 472
Loc: Brockton
The art of block to grip, such as with a moving punch or kick. Isn't this how it's done in real life? Wing chun has sticky hands, Bagua has Rhou Shou, Tai chi has push hands, who can come up with Randori like that?
Re; problems with Toris , The push pull principle combined with footwork required like the footwork of Aikido or Bagua as far as circular and sidestepping to be able to yield and overcome. Other than the moves of a technique footwork wasn't focused when I studied it. Is there any forms that practice judo footwork or is it all technique oriented?oriented?

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