In my dojo there are a set of weapons on display near the front door, with various swords, spears, nunchaku etc. One of these weapons is very strange, and i have no idea of it's name or where it comes from. It looks like a very beefy garden rake, believe it or not.

Ive had a hard time understanding how this could be an effective weapon? Or even a training one?

I will try and find a picture of it. If anyone could tell me anything about 'it', id be most appreciative, thank you!.

Cheers.

EDIT: Before anybody gets angry, I know this should be in the weapons forum.However it appears that noone really goes there, and i figured most of you sword folk would be knowledgable enough to answer my query anyway.


[This message has been edited by Moby Joe (edited 04-19-2005).]

I'm not sure the type of school you train at but odds are that it's really just a rake. Make no mistake, I've seen people use those with hilarious effectiveness. Also, (if I may assume) kung-fu and disciplines of alike origins tend to have a ridiculous variety of weapons like that. There are such weapons as battle spades and whatnot. Don't under estimate the ability of looking at something and thinking 'hey, I could fight with this' and then teaching others how to do it. Happens all the time. Maybe if I had more details though I could provide you with the name.

--Peace Is Tangible--

The old style jutte would look like a big rake, I gather. That might well be it. Not a rake at all, as far as I know, just a weapon. No idea how it would be used, either, but if it's on display, maybe sensei knows.

Is it a polearm weapon, or a close combat weapon?

If it is a polearm weapon, then it is a Japanese weapon called a "Kumade" (bear hand) and was used by naval personnel for boarding other ships. It was used as a grapple for climbing up the hull of a ship, as well as a weapon for pulling combatants off of the deck.
http://www.tctv.ne.jp/members/hirakawa/ichiryo/tools/buki03.jpg

On top you have a Sasumata, then a Kumade, a Sodegarami, and then a Yari.

Gunyo,

I train in shaolin kung fu. If that is a japanese weapon, what is it doing in a chinese martial art? The kumade does bear a passing resembalance,though. However, the kumade has much more defined hooks on it, making it a much more obvious choice for a weapon.

And splice, i have no idea what Jutte your talking about. As far as my knowledge goes, the jutte was used by feudal japanese 'police' and resemble a modern day nightstick more than anything.
http://www.e-budokai.com/hibuki/jutte.htm


Whatever the case, i will ask sifu tonight and get my answer.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Moby Joe:
Gunyo,

I train in shaolin kung fu. If that is a japanese weapon, what is it doing in a chinese martial art? The kumade does bear a passing resembalance,though. However, the kumade has much more defined hooks on it, making it a much more obvious choice for a weapon.

And splice, i have no idea what Jutte your talking about. As far as my knowledge goes, the jutte was used by feudal japanese 'police' and resemble a modern day nightstick more than anything.
http://www.e-budokai.com/hibuki/jutte.htm


Whatever the case, i will ask sifu tonight and get my answer.[/QUOTE]

The line between Chinese weapons and Japanese weapons sometimes blurs. This is due to a large ammount of interaction between the nations prior to the Ming. The Katana (for instance) was a refinement of a form of Dao that had been developed in China and popularized in Korea. Now this was AGES ago and the Japanese cleaned up the design quite a bit and improved on the metallurgy. (Meanwhile Chinese Metallurgy slipped, some Chinese governments discouraged the mass production of high-quality sidearms.) In recent years change in Chinese law has lead to a SIGNIFICANT improvement in metallurgy however for sabres I still prefer the Katana to the Dao. For straight swords though the Jian trumps all.

I think Splice means a certain type of jutte used in an earlier period. Imai Masayuki Soke theorised that Miyamoto Musashi's father, Munisai used a jutte with ten prongs set out horizontally. Imagine a coat hanger with prongs all the way along its longest edge.

Splice, I am coming over to Canada this year, so maybe I will see you there.

My source for the jitte I was talking about is probably the same as Zeal's. The jitte is talked about in both Imai soke's book and Kenji Tokitsu's Musashi: His life and writings. Here is a picture from Kenji Tokitsu's book:

[IMG]http://www.d-refuge.net/images/jitte.jpg[/IMG]

Since this a Chinese Arts dojo, I would bet that's not it however [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Zeal, I might see you, I might not. A few financial difficulties arose, but I'm doing my best to be there this year as always. It's worth it.

Shaolin Kung Fu uses a lot of improvised weapons. It could be just a rake.