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#115126 - 02/26/05 01:16 PM Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here?

I fairly recently started taking a style of Ken-jutsu called Teruo Santo Niten Ichi Ryu. I have heard little of it online beyond the fact that it is rare and has few students outside of Japan, where it isn't all that popular to begin with.

Whenever I find information on any Niten school it always specializes in Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu. I was wondering if there are any students of the style here and if I could get information about the style? I was also wondering if there are any other styles of the Niten Ichi Ryu?

#115127 - 02/27/05 05:39 AM Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here?

I have had the opportunity to train under soke and a senior student at annual seminars organized here in Canada. Like you said, it is rather rare to find training in this art. Where and under who are you studying?

I am aware of other branches of Niten Ichi Ryu, but I have no information at all as to their lineage, claims or techniques.

#115128 - 02/27/05 11:45 PM Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here?

I'm studing in the US, in Pennsylvania. And since I don't know about my sensei's feelings about having his name put out around the web, he will remain anonymous.

I kind of lucked out when I joined though, because I wanted to start branching out of kickboxing and I thought ken-jutsu wouldn't be a bad place to start. I would have taken any ryu I could find, but i ended up finding one of the rare styles.

And about our techniques... The class as a whole is small since the students are pretty new and most of them havent been there much longer than me, probably because ken-jutsu isn't the most popular(or practical) of martial arts. I've only been there a couple months (hence the name) but he has taught me a lot. For the most part we are learning how to effectively and safely use one sword until we move on to two. Mostly ive been learning some katas, tandoku and kumitachi. We are even learning some iai kata which I assume is naturally a part of the art. And of course I have learned the kirioroshi. How well i perform it is up to my sensei.

Even though I am not familiar to ken-jutsu as a whole outside of my ryu, it seems as if he knows what he is talking about. Hell, if he can batto and noto with a live blade and not lose fingers, he probably does.

What branch of the Niten Ichi Ryu do you train under? Can I assume it is hyoho, since it is the TKD of Niten?

#115129 - 02/28/05 04:40 AM Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here?

Would that person be Raymond Sosnowski? He is the only one I know of that is giving classes in Niten Ichi Ryu in the US who learned from Imai and Iwami soke. There might be others though, although no one around here actually has any teaching licenses, we just pass down what Imai and Iwami soke tell us.

As far as I know, Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu under Imai and Iwami soke is Santo-ha niten ichi ryu (according to an <a href=""> interview</a> with Haruna Matsuo.

And considering the insanely low number of people who practice the art, it certainly isn't the TKD of anything at all. On top of that, I have not seen anything about any other lines of Niten Ichi Ryu getting taught around here, so most likely you're studying under someone who's connected to Imai soke somehow. Or, although it's sad to say, someone who's connected to videos and books. Due to the popularity of such arts, there are a number of people "teaching" Niten Ichi Ryu without ever having learned it themselves, so it's important to know where your teacher comes from.

#115130 - 02/28/05 07:49 AM Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here?

No, no, no. Did you forget that he teaches Teruo Santo Niten Ichi Ryu, and not Hyoho? When I made the TKD comment is was reffering to the fact that Hyoho is the most popular of the Niten style, just like TKD is the most popular MA in the US. I also have no idea who Sosnowski is.

I could just ask my sensei tomorrow when I take one of his lessons about who taught him. I am also pretty sure that my sensei said while we were getting changed that there were other branches of the Niten style, and that while Hyoho is the most popular, it doesn't make it the best.

#115131 - 02/28/05 08:13 AM Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here?
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Well it certainly throws up flags. I've never heard of anyone teaching Niten Ichi Ryu aside from Sosnowski, and I've never heard of Teruo Santo, a name which sounds a little off to my addimtedly less than authoritative ear.

It's worth doing so more research. You could try contacting Hyakutake Collin over at http://www.e-budo via private message. While he is an exponent of Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu, he trains directly under the soke of that ryu-ha. He should at least be able to tell you if Teruo Santo is a legitimate offshoot of the true line or a McDojo.

#115132 - 02/28/05 09:20 AM Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here?

There's no need to get curt, n00b. I did not forget anything, in fact, the page still has everything you wrote. Amazing, huh?

The 5th through 7th headmasters of Imai soke's lineage are all named Santo (Santo Hikozaemon Kiyoaki, Santo Hanbei Kiyoaki and Santo Shinjuro Kiyotake). The 2nd and 3rd were named Terao (and another Terao brother had transmission of the art, but I don't know what came of it). Imai soke's line has been called Santo-ha, as far as I know. From all this, I've always thought "Teruo Santo" was a mishmash of two names and the actual line referred to was Santo-ha, hence Imai soke's line. Since you're so adamant about dissociating yourself from that lineage, I suppose there was a branch during the Santo period and someone named Santo Teruo led one line.

Your TKD comment sounded and felt dismissive. I do not call an art with some 30 registered students "popular". Your comment that "while Hyoho is the most popular, it doesn't make it the best" sounds absolutely ridiculous to me. I've never said anything about comparing branches, I have no idea how you could ever say which is "best", and I see no reason to even talk about such a thing. We don't fight with swords anymore, we preserve a tradition.

At any rate, I have no info at all on Teruo Santo Niten Ichi Ryu. If I had a clue on how to write "Teruo Santo" in Japanese, I could do some research. As it is, a search for it in english brings up this thread, another discussion thread on another forum (no info there either), and one dojo in Pennsylvania. I can check in some references I have at home, I might have a lineage for the line (but not much more).

Charles, I wouldn't be concerned about the name. I found 84 matches for Teruo in a name dictionary. Although it also sounds strange to my ears, seems like it's a perfectly fine name.

Of course, with 84 ways to write it, and 13 ways of writing Santo, I only have to try 1092 combinations to find some info in Japanese about Teruo Santo Niten Ichi Ryu [IMG][/IMG]

#115133 - 02/28/05 11:12 PM Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here?

didnt mean to offend u in anyway splice, and sorry about the TKD comment.

also, just to let you know, i dont know **** about japanese sword arts including their history beyond what my sensei says in class, and he only gives us some info here and there due to time constraints. mostly he teaches technique, which is what i expected. most of my martial arts career has been spent in a boxing/kickboxing/wrestling gym.

and while YOU may not plan on using what you are learning, i at least want an effective weapon to use in the off chance someone breaks into my house (happened once, almost twice, and im still young). i doubt that most burglars enter into peoples houses unarmed, but i refuse to use guns for the mere fact that i feel dirty when i even look at them. its doubtful that a burglar has any sword training, but i at least wanna be able to use the sword without accidentally killing myself or my family. i just want an equalizer.

since niten ichi ryu is so rare, what ryus of kenjutsu would be easier to find if i wanted information or instruction? and charles, what ryu do you train under?

[This message has been edited by kenjutsu n00b (edited 03-01-2005).]

[This message has been edited by kenjutsu n00b (edited 03-01-2005).]

[This message has been edited by kenjutsu n00b (edited 03-01-2005).]

#115134 - 03/01/05 08:05 AM Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here?
Zeal Offline

Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 56
Its not necessarily about choosing a style and studying it, more about studying what is available to you. Good instruction in Koryu Kenjutsu is hard to come by.

Splice are you over in Guelph? I am thinking about coming over in May for the seminar, depending on funds.

#115135 - 03/01/05 09:14 AM Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here?

I actually am in Ottawa, but we have a close connection to the Guelph folks. It's all one big family around here. I will be attending the seminar for sure, can't miss the third one after I've been to the first two. Definitely worth the trip.

n00b, all the more power to you then. I hope that you reconsider that home defense with katana idea. That, or make sure you have extra wide hallways and high ceilings. And a good lawyer.

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