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#114691 - 02/18/05 09:50 PM Re: Better Swordsmen? The Ninja or Samurai?
Anonymous
Unregistered


im not interested in hearing about my poor construction of sentances, taking a dig at that is a weakness is itself, and further more i was just trying to be helpful. the information is out there for you to read as for ANY other person who is genuinly interested in the subject of iaido/kenjutsu/kendo etc. so the fact is that in days of old the ninja sword was inferior and able to be easily CUT IN HALF by a well made "katana". but just for an example, try looking up the REAL meaning for the word KATANA in japanese, and not just with one search but many. reasearch the word before you make a statement. cheers

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#114692 - 02/18/05 09:59 PM Re: Better Swordsmen? The Ninja or Samurai?
Anonymous
Unregistered


by the way, incase you do not do the research a shinken and iaito are the two words traditionally used for a samurai sword, and if you do the research you will find that the word samurai is also incorect. these are the words that are common/popular today.

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#114693 - 02/18/05 10:09 PM Re: Better Swordsmen? The Ninja or Samurai?
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Really. So Iaito is a traditional word. How long you reckon Iaito have been around I wonder. For that matter, how long as the term shinken been in use?

As for the critique of your sentence construction, I wasn't trying to make fun of you in any way. I genuinely could not be sure what you were trying to say.

[QUOTE]
reasearch the word before you make a statement.[/QUOTE]

That's a very good piece of advice.

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#114694 - 02/18/05 11:56 PM Re: Better Swordsmen? The Ninja or Samurai?
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
One more time for the cheap seats, the ninja-to was not a historical sword. The so-called "techniques" for the ninja-to as a tool for climbing or what ever were a development of the ninja boom in the 80's. Th swords used in ninjutsu were the same as a katana with exception to the length of the blade. The tsuka and saya were the same as a katana but the blade would be shorter, similar to a wakizashi blade.

I'm not even going to get into the "iaito, katana" discussion, i'll let Mr. Mahan have his fun.

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#114695 - 02/19/05 12:03 AM Re: Better Swordsmen? The Ninja or Samurai?
Anonymous
Unregistered


thats funny, a ninja-to as a tool for alot of things is well documented even by the schools themselves. lol. but i use the term ninja-to loosly. as with alot of the sword arts and differeing historical information things need to be interpreted by the researcher. alot of the swords used were just "katana" that were passed down from father to son etc. and alot of other espionage experts had their own preference for length or straitness or even curvedness. again reasearch is the key. do not beleive everything you read from some website - they could be ANYONE. lol

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#114696 - 02/19/05 12:55 AM Re: Better Swordsmen? The Ninja or Samurai?
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
No i believe the historians and museum exhibits i've seen in Japan. None of which show any signs of the straight blade "ninja-to" seen today. Before you tell ME to do some research maybe you should look a bit farther than Kevin Hawthorn for your ninjutsu oriented information. The ninja-to is nothing more than neoninja garbage promoted by Hollywood and ninja frauds.

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#114697 - 02/19/05 01:26 AM Re: Better Swordsmen? The Ninja or Samurai?
Anonymous
Unregistered


classic. ive been to alot of museums in japan myself (i spent 3 years living in tokyo) and i have also seen alot of personal collections. i have seen everything from straitish blades to extremely curved blades. i find it very amusing that people always question stuff here. and i have done ALOT of training and research myself. both myself at such places and from books. i would be interested to know what museums you visited and which swords from which swordmakers you viewed (if it is questioning we are getting into here) i would be more than happy to provide information about what i have seen from what makers and in what collections, but since this IS a forum, please share this information with us. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] lol

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#114698 - 02/19/05 03:04 AM Re: Better Swordsmen? The Ninja or Samurai?
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
I never said anything about sword collectors, I said historians some of which did have some impressive collections. As for the museums I visited, two that would have relevance to this conversation would be the sword museum in Tokyo and the Togakure Ninja Shiryokan. Neither of them showed any evidence of the ninja-to.

What I find funny are people who throw out statements as fact but avoid clarifying where they got the information. Instead they complain about being asked to prove something.

[QUOTE] by the way, incase you do not do the research a shinken and iaito are the two words traditionally used for a samurai sword, and if you do the research you will find that the word samurai is also incorect. these are the words that are common/popular today.[/QUOTE]

Statements like this are why you are being questioned about your history and training. Feel free to expound on this statement. Where did you learn this? What IS the correct term if samurai is not? What exactly IS the definition of iaito? Or shinken for that matter.

Before you tell other people they need to do their research you need to check your facts because the above statement is complete rubbish.

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#114699 - 02/19/05 03:17 AM Re: Better Swordsmen? The Ninja or Samurai?
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Feel free to take a look at Richard Stein's page as well and see what is said about the ninja-to there.
http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/faq.htm
http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/realold.htm

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#114700 - 02/19/05 03:44 AM Re: Better Swordsmen? The Ninja or Samurai?
Anonymous
Unregistered


a quick quote from the webpage

Q : Where can I get a ninja sword?
A : Ninja swords are Hollywood fictions. There is no historical evidence that ninja used swords any different from those used by samurai or anyone else.

as it says closer

that ninja used swords any different from those used by samurai or anyone else.

since you have seen swrods in museums and so forth you should also know that there are as many different sword types as there are sword makers of the time. and also no two swords are alike as i have mentioned in another thread.

as i have said i have seen swords that are straitish to extremely curved. this comes from different styles of sword making as well as the swordmakers preference.

all you did was substanciate my point, thank you

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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