i agree with judokater on the degradation. that was rude and uncalled for, as for the language it self i have a tiny pearl of wisdom "critise a mirror before you critisize others" I make no pretence at being a spelling and grammatical genius.

anyway. the word ninjitsu, if i am correct, means art of stealth, and kenjitsu mean, again if my loose grasp of japanese is correct, art of blade. so is it not logical the ninja used stealth over straight combat.

SwordCritter.

"Ninjutsu" and "Kenjutsu" are just "arts"--such as tea, or flower arranging.

As I mentioned above--since some "samurai" were also practicing "ninja" the question is bollocks.

On the off chance your serious, please read thu the posts prior to posting yourself--saves time.

yes i did notice the post you had made prior cxt but it didn't do much for the discussion except try to nullify it which is never good. until the point is moot i will continue to argue it.

as for your styate ment on me not reading the thread before posting. i will have you know that i read every post before i even think about posting my self.

Umm... then stop posting, it is a moot point. That's what cxt was pointing out.

Is it all about having the last word?
a endless argument gives a great deal of info
About the arts, it weak points and its strong points.
the rapier vs. katana was a very good topic. cuz people were naming advantages and disadvantages.
that way people learn stuff, and that is (in my view)the propos of a forum

But at what cost? How much of it was misinformation.

Judo

Or learn that better questions can be asked.

Or a person can learn that in this specifc case some "samurai" WERE "ninja."

Which is more than the first poster knew.

I'd say that folks paying attention could learn alot.

What I have learned from reading threads is to pay attention to certain people. There are a few people who are very knowledgable on sword arts, and they are the ones worth listening to. How they respond to others' posts is how I define the legitimacy of the posts.

However, I don't hold something to be true as soon as I hear it from these people. I wait until it's verified by one or two other sources before I adopt it to be truth.

All threads have some value, you just have to learn how to sift through the BS, which is really quite easy to do.

the "shinobigatana" or the now so called ninja-to was an inferior weapon most of the time because of the poorer practices used in its construction. it was a tool rather than a real work of art and almost never had any type of grain or hamon or even any blade lamination to speak of. the samurai sword "iai-to" or katana as is now the popular word (though wrong) was a work of smithing ART these original blades were made to perfection by the serious sword smiths and include MANY lamination types and processes depending on the smordsmith in question. i am also a swordsmith (my work is not for sale though i can provide pictures of what i make) and during test cutting it is possible to cut through tree branches that are as thick as a mans thigh in one stroke. with a blade such as this many duals fought by the likes of musashi and others lasted a total of a few seconds, because a good student of the way is able to cut down a man almost instantly. it was a case of who got in the first blow first, beacuse if you didnt you were dead - that simple. the so called ninja-to was more of a tool, used for many things and not just a weapon. it was used as a steping platform to get onto walls. it was used to cut vines and rope etc. it was used to skin and prepare his dinner even. it was a tool rather than a weapon. so the main question is invalid because ninja as a whole were not swordsmen at all, but assassins who rarely had to use their swords. BUT , they also trained in many arts and come from many walks of life therefore a ninja could be quite a good swordsman IF he was previously a samurai who was employed into epionage. and thats just the simple truth.

Interesting... and just where did you get all this information? I'm particularly interested in the source of this particular quote. It's a real Gem.

[QUOTE]the samurai sword "iai-to" or katana as is now the popular word (though wrong) was a work of smithing ART these original blades were made to perfection by the serious sword smiths and include MANY lamination types and processes depending on the smordsmith in question.[/QUOTE]

That's a very poorly written sentence, but I think one of the things you are trying to say is that the Samurai sword which used to be called an iaito, is now wrongly called an katana. Interesting theory.

You also seem to be saying that iaito "were a work of smithing ART". That "these original blades were made to perfection by the serious sword smiths and include MANY lamination types and processes depending on the smordsmith in question."

Could you describe this ninja sword you are talking about?