FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 83 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
John123john, pgswimmer, SifuPhil, Jens, PiotrKraft
23159 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
ThomasParker34 1
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30
New Topics
Recent Posts
Forum Stats
23159 Members
36 Forums
35694 Topics
432746 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 4 of 12 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 11 12 >
Topic Options
#114701 - 02/19/05 04:21 AM Re: Better Swordsmen? The Ninja or Samurai?

ok here goes. this is the information which i have always thought to be true, both from instructors and from books, below i will quote a few passages from a book i have just to give you an example. please clarify this for me if you beleive me to be wrong.

page 210 from "the history and philosophy of kendo"

kendoka (kendo students) would also work with a bokken (bambo sword) and the katana (practise sword)

also a quote from the same page again

it is interesting to note that for the greater part of japanese history, kendo and/or kenjutsu were practised almost exclusivly by the BUSHI, known more commonly TODAY as the samurai.

and from the chapter on iaido

iaido derives from the ancient way of the samurai warrior (bushi), and the forerunner of the art we know today, IAI-JUTSU, was used in ernest on the battlefield, whereas iaido was designed to practise "the way of the sword".
evildence suggests that the bokken used today in the novice training of iaido has been used as a weapon since about AD400. the curved swords seen today are not the original japanese swords. indeed they were flat, strait swords of primitive construction,used for simple strikes and thrusts. it was around AD940, the middle of the heian period, that the single edged, slightly curved sword appeared and the supurb skill or the japanese warrior developed. until that time single handed swords were used in battle by mounted soldiers, using the right hand to draw and cut the enemy.
sometime after the 16th century, battle strategy changed and mounted warriors replaced foot warriors who had worn light armor and used techniques requiring both hands on the hilt.

in training a samurai (bushi) would use a bokken(woooden sword) or a katana (practise sword) to minimise injury when not in battle.
during times of battle they would employ the use of a sharp shinken (to) of great craftsmanship, able to cut a man down in a single blow with an experienced hand.

this is a quote from fay goodmans book
"the history and philosophy of kendo"

fay goodman : a leading exponent of shinto-ryu (8th dan) and winner of the gold medal in the 1995 european championships. once of the most respected and highest graded female martial artists in the world.

she had collaberation in this book by
trevor jones : 6th dan iaido, 4th dan kendo, and has represented GB in both european and world champoinships.


hiroshi sugawara
5th dan kendo, studied in miyagi prefecture japan for 20 years, and hokkaido japan for 10 years.

i hope this is enough information for you.

#114702 - 02/19/05 04:52 AM Re: Better Swordsmen? The Ninja or Samurai?

[QUOTE]by the way, incase you do not do the research a shinken and iaito are the two words traditionally used for a samurai sword, and if you do the research you will find that the word samurai is also incorect. these are the words that are common/popular today. [/QUOTE]

Mr Mahan, can you please tell us what a shinken and an iaito are?

The books Walltiger quotes seem to conflict common learning.

#114703 - 02/19/05 04:57 AM Re: Better Swordsmen? The Ninja or Samurai?

to me a shinken is a sharp "live" sword and an iaito is a lesser grade sword that is not usually sharp.

by traditional i ment by the schools,

i beleive the actual traditional word for a sword was "to" lol.

#114704 - 02/19/05 05:13 AM Re: Better Swordsmen? The Ninja or Samurai?

Shinken is live but newly made, I believe since WW2. Why would a samurai use a blunt blade?

#114705 - 02/19/05 05:17 AM Re: Better Swordsmen? The Ninja or Samurai?

training as i have mentioned above. an overlord would not want dead soldiers in their ranks, lmao

#114706 - 02/19/05 05:23 AM Re: Better Swordsmen? The Ninja or Samurai?

the word shinken actually translates as "real sword"

but yes iwould agree that terminology today would dictate shinken to mean a newly made live sword.

#114707 - 02/19/05 10:00 AM Re: Better Swordsmen? The Ninja or Samurai?

the ninja would win the match, since the samurai are loyal to their believe in honour, ruels and kodexes on a battle field, the ninja would use on of his many weapons, regardless of honour, to out-smarten the samurai and then kill him.

#114708 - 02/19/05 11:12 AM Re: Better Swordsmen? The Ninja or Samurai?
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4065
Loc: Limbo

Your claim was that the "ninja-to" was used by ninjutsu practitioners and existed in history. The ninja-to is a straight blade, square tsuba sword with black fittings. This sword did not exist prior to the ninja boom of the 80's. Go back and read my previous post about the ninja-to. The site i referred you to did NOT "substanciate" your claims, you just changed your stance. Either you don't know what a ninja-to is or your changing your story.

Now for your iaito/shinken comments. Basically you read a couple of books, misunderstood them and your not stating your misunderstandings here as fact and claiming we need to do more research? If your instructors are telling you this you need to find new instructors. We've already established one of your instructors was a fraud and didn't know anything about ninjutsu. You never did say who was teaching you iaido and kendo.

#114709 - 02/19/05 02:16 PM Re: Better Swordsmen? The Ninja or Samurai?

I agree with liam .A ninja would not come in direct combat, as said before a ninja was an assassin, and therefore has no need for direct combat.
and if they were forced in to combat they would do anything to get out alive.
as for how is an better swordsmen, I would still say a Samurai (sorry for not using the correct term for samurai), because a they train more with swords then the ninja's do (in a fair situation)(and I am talking about two men that are at the same level in there own art)

ps, if you disagree, let me know by telling what is incorrect , and how it should be.

#114710 - 02/19/05 06:33 PM Re: Better Swordsmen? The Ninja or Samurai?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by walltiger:
the word shinken actually translates as "real sword.[/QUOTE]

Shin - new.

Ken - sword.

Thus, shinken - new sword.

Page 4 of 12 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 11 12 >

Moderator:  Charles Mahan, Cord, MattJ, Reiki 

Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Only $89

Ryukyu Art
Artifacts from the Ryukyu Kingdom missing since WWII. Visit www.ShisaLion.Org to view pictures

Best Stun Guns
Self Defense Products-stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and more

Surveillance 4U
Complete surveillance systems for covert operations or secure installation security

Asylum Images
Book presents photo tour of the Trans-Allegany Lunatic Asylum. A must if you're going to take a ghost tour!


Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga