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#113718 - 12/18/04 04:07 PM Iaido or Kendo?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Heya all,

I want to become adept with a Katana, but don't know whether Kendo or Iaido would be more appropriate.

I'm not knowledgeable about sword-arts, and am admitting so, so please don't scream at me like a newbie.


Mark.

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#113719 - 12/18/04 04:18 PM Re: Iaido or Kendo?
Amos Smith Offline
Member

Registered: 12/19/00
Posts: 133
Loc: Wisconsin
[QUOTE]Originally posted by StayUnderMyWing:
Heya all,

I want to become adept with a Katana, but don't know whether Kendo or Iaido would be more appropriate.

I'm not knowledgeable about sword-arts, and am admitting so, so please don't scream at me like a newbie.


Mark.
[/QUOTE]


Thats a question that could raise some hackles. My opinion is this:

Kendo is a sport, which will teach you how the use a shinai. Kenjutsu is an art which will teach you to use a sword. Iaido is a subset of Kenjutsu which will teach you to draw and cut in the same motion.

So to answer your question...(in my opinion)neither iaido or kendo will teach you to use a sword specifically. I think you may be looking for kenjutsu, which may include iaido.

Just my opinion.

Amos

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#113720 - 12/18/04 07:54 PM Re: Iaido or Kendo?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Mark, I am also pretty much a beginner in the sword arts. My choice was both Iaido and kenjutsu. In the research I have done, it seems there elements of both in both. Kenjutsu is combat with a sword, and starts with the sword already drawn. Iaido, as Amos said, is the art of drawing the sword, making a counter and/or attack, then returning the sword to the saya (scabbard).

For coolness, I like Iaido, for really learning how to fight with a sword, I like kenjutsu. Like I said, I'm a beginner at this so take what I say with whatever you want.

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#113721 - 12/18/04 08:09 PM Re: Iaido or Kendo?
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Don't sell Iai short. We do most if no all of the things the kenjutsu guys do, and we do it with real swords instead of wooden ones. We just do it with a different emphasis in training. Iai is not just about drawing cutting and putting it back. There's an awful lot more to it than that.

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#113722 - 12/18/04 08:41 PM Re: Iaido or Kendo?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Charles,

I do iai and kenjutsu and I have to disagree. Iai is mainly tandoku geiko (solo training) and kenjutsu is sotai geiko (paired training).

Muso Jikiden Eishin ryu, the ryuha you train in doesn't do any sotai keiko like Tachi Uchi No Kurai or Tsume Ai No Kurai for years (Depending upon the sensei of course). But most don't allow even paired training with bokuto for quite a long while. How are trainees supposed to learn hasuji, hyoshi, kyusho and seme from tandoku geiko?

Not trying to knock the art, as I train in it too, in a different ryuha. Sotai keiko is for learning timing, distance, vital points, how to use the sori of the weapon, etc. Tandoku geiko is for learning how to draw, handle and cut with a shinken.

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#113723 - 12/18/04 09:44 PM Re: Iaido or Kendo?
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Considering we spend the majority of our time with real swords I'd say we have the advantage on judging hasuji.

As for two man waza, I agree. They are quite necessary. That's why they are integral to our training curriculum, but you are correct. They are not taught early in the training curriculum. It's usually not taught within the first 6 years or so of training. The things the kumitachi are meant to teach cannot be adequately worked on if the student doesn't have a firm grasp of the fundamentals of the system. You can't work on cutting your partner with kesagiri using proper timing and proper maai manipulation if you can't perform a proper kesagiri without an opponent. You can try, but the training time would be better spent working on fundamentals.

Iai is primarily solo waza because you cannot do iai properly in a paired exercise. The very nature of iai requires the use of live blades for quality training, and that prevents paired waza. Doesn't help attendance if you keep killing students during training.

You're more than welcome to take up the matter of our training curriculum with Ikeda-soke.

What styles of Iai and kenjutsu do you study?

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#113724 - 12/18/04 11:43 PM Re: Iaido or Kendo?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Guys, I don't mean to sound rude, but most of us aren't Japanese, and a lot of us don't speak the language. Would you please give translations or use English phrases instead of straight Japanese?

Thank you

SUMW, you are polite and use neither L33t nor Aolien. Why kind of jerks would we be if we screamed at you?

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#113725 - 12/19/04 04:58 AM Re: Iaido or Kendo?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ben - Well, cos I spot on a few boards, and when someone asks a newbie-ish question, people can tend to get a bit annoyed. Anyway, thanks.

That's a shame. So, in Iaido I'd get to know how to handle a Katana well, but not really learn how to fight for 5 years?

And Kenjutsu I'd learn to fight with a sword from the beginning, but not how to handle a Katana at all?

I'm an actor, so partly want to acquire skills that could help me in my career.

What do you think is easist:

1. Being an Iaido practitioner, and learning how to put a fight together? ir

2. Being a Kendo/jutsu practitioner, and learning how to use a Katana for the fight skills you already have?


Mark.

Top
#113726 - 12/19/04 08:01 AM Re: Iaido or Kendo?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Charles,

It's Steve Delaney from e-budo and the (now defunct) Samurai forum.

I do Araki ryu.

Top
#113727 - 12/20/04 09:04 AM Re: Iaido or Kendo?
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Hey Steve! Howya been. Now at least I know where you're coming from.

Mark,
I think you're missing the point. The solo training IS combat training. It's one piece of the puzzle, and a very important piece for MJER. The two man work is just another part of the training, not the beginning of training. It merely reinforces and expands upon things that you should already have learned in the solo waza.

As for cinematic swordsmanship, I don't know that real training will help you much. Real swordwork has a tendency to be very boring to watch. It can give you some control that only really comes with training. That said, it' probably doesn't matter what you train in if control is your only goal.

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