FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 61 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Shanktotheright, royal, bobgalle100011, agenonline, TooNice
22862 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
THEFOREVERMAN 3
MattJ 2
royal 2
Dobbersky 2
cxt 1
April
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30
New Topics
Judo Olympic Games 1964 Tokyo, The Video Gallery
by ergees
04/01/14 05:26 AM
Muay Thai Seminar with Greg Nelson - Marcus Charle
by Marcus Charles
03/24/14 04:39 PM
Fighting On Saturday!!!
by Dobbersky
03/20/14 05:45 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
AKK kata question
by
09/04/05 01:27 PM
Recent Posts
Fighting On Saturday!!!
by THEFOREVERMAN
04/16/14 08:22 AM
Muay Thai Seminar with Greg Nelson - Marcus Charle
by THEFOREVERMAN
04/16/14 08:20 AM
AKK kata question
by MattJ
04/04/14 05:45 PM
Judo Olympic Games 1964 Tokyo, The Video Gallery
by ergees
04/01/14 05:26 AM
Forum Stats
22862 Members
36 Forums
35546 Topics
432378 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 3 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#113738 - 12/20/04 04:44 PM Re: Iaido or Kendo?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ok, I have a better understading of these weapons now.

I'm not spending tons on a sword, as I'm a beginner, but I don't want one that snaps in half if you accidentally turn round and hit it on the wall. Even 200 is a lot to spend only to have it break.

What's the best compromise on strength and price, and just HOW brittle is a Iaito? I mean, how easy are they to break?


Mark.

Top
#113739 - 12/20/04 08:07 PM Re: Iaido or Kendo?
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Iaito are solo practice weapons. They are used for form work only. No contact. Iaito are the primary training tools of iaidoka for the first several years of their training, and will be used off and on for the rest of their training career.

Why are they made of zinc aluminum alloy? That has a lot to do with Japanese Sword laws. There are regulations in Japan that limit sword smiths to 2 katanas per month. That's all they are allowed to make by law. Considering there aren't that many smiths left and the number of iaidoka in Japan has exploded over the last few decades, an alternative had to be found. The regulations did not extend to blades made of soft aluminum alloys, but did cover all ferrous(ie iron based) alloys. So no steel of any kind. The zinc aluminum alloys have been adopted as a suitable alternative.

Another part of the problem that led to the popularity of iaito is the effect the production restrictions had on the price of shinken. Scarcity leads to higher prices. Much much much higher prices. A newly smithed blade in Japan will run you a minimum of $4000 or so. That would be made most likely by a smiths apprentice, and one with no reputation or particular skill of their own. A decent blade with good fittings can easily cost $6000 to $10,000. And there is almost literally no limit to how much you can spend on one. $4000 is a little steep for new students to afford so again the iaito's came to the rescue.

So that's a little history. On another note, iaito are now the traditional beginners training tool. They've only been around for 50 odd years or so, but are used universally for new students. In other words, you will almost certainly be allowed to train with an iaito, but it is VERY unlikely anyone worth training with will allow you to train with a stainless steel wallhanger.

Two man work in almost all styles is done with wooden swords or shinai. So it is really irrelevant whether or not your iaito will survive contact with another blade.

Top
#113740 - 12/21/04 01:27 AM Re: Iaido or Kendo?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Would say a Bugei samurai be able to withstand other blows of another sword? If a bugei samurai sword crossed with a 420/440 stainless blade, would it shatter the stainless blade but leave the bugei samurai intact?

You can replace samurai with any of their other "real swords". I just used that one as an example because it's a pretty well rounded sword.

Top
#113741 - 12/21/04 04:43 AM Re: Iaido or Kendo?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yes, I imagine a folded 7007 shinken would smash a 420/440 and come out pretty unscathed. They just shatter on impact.

Charles, what I mean is that although a Iaito would never stand up to sword contact, is it goin to snap in half if I turn round by accident and hit it on a wall/couch/chair, as stupid beginners may do?


Mark.

Top
#113742 - 12/21/04 08:45 AM Re: Iaido or Kendo?
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Not unless you hit it pretty hard. I've seen someone break the tip off an iaito, but he had lost his balance during a tricky waza and elected to let go of his sword mid swing rather than risk falling on it. It flew 10 feet across the room into a brick wall tip first. The last half inch of the blade broke off. That was a pretty hard hit though.

Plenty of folks I know have accidentally cut a little high and caught a piece of the ceiling with no permanent damage.

As for the Bugei Samurai cutting wallhangers, Don't know. I suspect you will notch the edge, or at least chip it. Believe it or not, katana were made for cutting people not other swords. That's why the ryu-ha typically advise against hard blocks in favor of diversion and evasion. A hard block is just too dangerous.

Top
#113743 - 12/21/04 10:05 AM Re: Iaido or Kendo?
Anonymous
Unregistered


One final question.

Paul Chen Practical Plus vs SwordStore Iaito?

PPCP - i.e. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=36281&item=7122817171&rd=1

It seems to say that it has the strength of a cutter, with less aesthetic frilly bits, but for much less money.

What d'ya think?

Merry Xmas by the way.


Mark.


P.S. This may sound silly, but everything I read is from a right handed perspective. I would feel more comfortable drawing with the left, is that allowed, or would I just have to train the other way and get used to it?


[This message has been edited by StayUnderMyWing (edited 12-21-2004).]

Top
#113744 - 12/21/04 10:37 AM Re: Iaido or Kendo?
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
That's really a question for your instructor. At our dojo, you would not be allowed to train with the PPK+. They have a lousy balance and are not really built for excessive training. The handle won't stand up to it. Worse, the lousy balance in heavy kata use is likely to cause tendonitis in the right forearm.

The PPK+ is a cheap as dirt cutter. I'm not a cutter, but from the reviews I've seen by people who do cut, the PPK+ is marginal at best. On the upside, it's cheap enough that if you break it or bend it badly you're only out a couple hundred dollars. It is not suited to iai training at all.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by a right-handed perspective and drawing from the left. The sword is always worn on the left hip and drawn with the right. There are no left handed swordsmen in Japan.

[This message has been edited by Charles Mahan (edited 12-21-2004).]

Top
#113745 - 12/21/04 11:18 AM Re: Iaido or Kendo?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I mean that I would feel SOO much more comfortable drawing and resheathing with my left hand from a Saya on my right hip.

Does this mean that I just won't be able to?


Mark.

Top
#113746 - 12/21/04 11:25 AM Re: Iaido or Kendo?
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Pretty much.

Top
#113747 - 12/21/04 01:13 PM Re: Iaido or Kendo?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Dammit, that's really annoying. I've tried it and it feels so alien to do it right handed, like writing with the wrong hand.

If it's mainly solo practice, why does it make a difference?


Mark.

Top
Page 3 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >


Moderator:  Charles Mahan, Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Ryukyu Art
Artifacts from the Ryukyu Kingdom missing since WWII. Visit www.ShisaLion.Org to view pictures

Best Stun Guns
Self Defense Products-stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and more

Surveillance 4U
Complete surveillance systems for covert operations or secure installation security

Asylum Images
Book presents photo tour of the Trans-Allegany Lunatic Asylum. A must if you're going to take a ghost tour!

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga