FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 52 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Shanktotheright, royal, bobgalle100011, agenonline, TooNice
22862 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Dobbersky 3
MattJ 2
Jeff_G 1
Marcus Charles 1
TooNice 1
April
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30
New Topics
Judo Olympic Games 1964 Tokyo, The Video Gallery
by ergees
04/01/14 05:26 AM
Muay Thai Seminar with Greg Nelson - Marcus Charle
by Marcus Charles
03/24/14 04:39 PM
Fighting On Saturday!!!
by Dobbersky
03/20/14 05:45 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
AKK kata question
by
09/04/05 01:27 PM
Recent Posts
AKK kata question
by MattJ
04/04/14 05:45 PM
Judo Olympic Games 1964 Tokyo, The Video Gallery
by ergees
04/01/14 05:26 AM
Fighting On Saturday!!!
by Jeff_G
03/30/14 12:44 AM
Muay Thai Seminar with Greg Nelson - Marcus Charle
by Marcus Charles
03/24/14 04:39 PM
Forum Stats
22862 Members
36 Forums
35546 Topics
432375 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#113280 - 11/18/04 08:06 PM Fencing vs Kendo
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm sure many of you have heard of face offs including these two differing sword styles. But i have never seen a match between the two, nor have i ever heard people who know what they're talking about on this subject. I just want to hear some opinions on a Fencer fighting a Kendo or Kenjutsu artist.

Top
#113281 - 11/18/04 08:30 PM Re: Fencing vs Kendo
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
With what weapons? The trouble with fighting a kenjutsuka is that it's very difficult to dodge or parry a fatal cut. A lot of the standard dodge and parry stuff is not gonna work the same way. Of course the kenjutsuka will face similar but different challenges with the fencers.

Concensus on this type of question always comes down to... depends on the particular individuals involved.

Top
#113282 - 11/18/04 09:13 PM Re: Fencing vs Kendo
Anonymous
Unregistered


For what it's worth, a mixed match of this sort was held in the early 1900s, between the great maestro Julio Castello, and a nameless kendoka. Castello was armed with a saber, so he could both cut and thrust. He won.

Top
#113283 - 11/18/04 10:46 PM Re: Fencing vs Kendo
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well this question I have seen a great number of times on other forums. 1st, we must take into consideration the speed of the fencer's rapier (assuming that will be the weapon of choice). But the lethal capabilities of a katana and its extra-long reach over the rapier is something to take into consideration. The footwork would be more or less evenly matched given that fencing and Kenjutsu in general have very dinamic and fast footwork. If we assume the fencers have both the same skill level on their respective arts; my guess would be that they will most likely kill eachother, a draw. The rapier is small, light and fast. The katana is long, powerfull and posseses superior cutting ability. The fencer will probably look for a good thrust trying to dodge the cutting of the Kenjutsu stylist. The Kenjutsuist wiil try to block or parry the rapier to get a good cutting or thrusting technique in. The fencer in the end might get cut and the Kenjutsuist might also receive a potentially lethal thrust. Again, a draw. As Musashi said: "When you pitch two equally skilled oponents against each other, the winner is the one that draws his sword first." I believe that it depends on who "Lady Luck" smiles upon.

C. Roman

Top
#113284 - 11/19/04 05:20 AM Re: Fencing vs Kendo
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by whitedragon_48:
Well this question I have seen a great number of times on other forums. 1st, we must take into consideration the speed of the fencer's rapier (assuming that will be the weapon of choice). But the lethal capabilities of a katana and its extra-long reach over the rapier is something to take into consideration. The footwork would be more or less evenly matched given that fencing and Kenjutsu in general have very dinamic and fast footwork. If we assume the fencers have both the same skill level on their respective arts; my guess would be that they will most likely kill eachother, a draw. The rapier is small, light and fast. The katana is long, powerfull and posseses superior cutting ability. The fencer will probably look for a good thrust trying to dodge the cutting of the Kenjutsu stylist. The Kenjutsuist wiil try to block or parry the rapier to get a good cutting or thrusting technique in. The fencer in the end might get cut and the Kenjutsuist might also receive a potentially lethal thrust. Again, a draw. As Musashi said: "When you pitch two equally skilled oponents against each other, the winner is the one that draws his sword first." I believe that it depends on who "Lady Luck" smiles upon.

C. Roman
[/QUOTE]

Bro, the original question was "kendo vs. fencing", not "classical kenjutsu vs. Renaissance European swordsmanship"...

Top
#113285 - 11/19/04 06:07 AM Re: Fencing vs Kendo
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
If I'm not very much mistaken, the average katana is somewhat shorter than the average rapier.

MJER uses longer than average swords typically, and mine is a 2-4-5 by the traditional measurement system. That's about 30 inches worth of blade and another 10 inches worth of tsuka. Roughly 40 inches in total length. If I'm not mistaken rapiers are usually 4 to 10 inches longer.

Add to that the fact that katana's are typically wielded with two hands and the rapier has a considerable advantage in reach compared to the katata.

Now Kendo Shinai are usually a good bit longer than 40 inches, but I'm reasonably certain that the rapier is still longer on average, and again is a one handed weapon ensuring that the rapier still has the distance advantage.

[This message has been edited by Charles Mahan (edited 11-19-2004).]

Top
#113286 - 11/19/04 07:00 AM Re: Fencing vs Kendo
Anonymous
Unregistered


The fencing saber used by Castello in the kendo vs. fencing match would have had a blade of around 34"-35" in length.

But yeah, rapiers are generally longer.

Top
#113287 - 11/19/04 07:50 AM Re: Fencing vs Kendo
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
By 34" do you include the length of the handle? Or is that just the blade length? Even if that's total length, considering the one handed nature of the sabre, it still has a distance advantage. It is not as overwhelming thought if it is a saber instead of a rapier.

When I was mentioning the rapier it was in reference to WDs assertion "But the lethal capabilities of a katana and its extra-long reach over the rapier is something to take into consideration." This clearly shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the relative lengths of the two weapons.

Top
#113288 - 11/19/04 09:16 AM Re: Fencing vs Kendo
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5811
Loc: USA
For what its worth back in my college days we played around with saber and kendo shinai.

What general occured was a quick first stike by saber--usaully a quick thrust followed by a head cut the sabe guy almost never escaped from.

So from a "points" perspective-which both arts use--the saber "won."

Course the curved wire of a olympic style "saber" is no-where near the handeling charcteristics of a "real" saber.

Nor is the shinai anywher close to a "real" katana.

So it was a lot of fun--but don't know what it really proves.

What was more fun (in a twisted kind of way) was working with a "real" period saber--edges ground off.

Top
#113289 - 11/19/04 09:56 AM Re: Fencing vs Kendo
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1736
Loc: Miami, Fl.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by WhyCantIbeSteve:
I'm sure many of you have heard of face offs including these two differing sword styles. But i have never seen a match between the two, nor have i ever heard people who know what they're talking about on this subject. I just want to hear some opinions on a Fencer fighting a Kendo or Kenjutsu artist.[/QUOTE]

Try this article, from a guy that's done both: http://www.thearma.org/essays/katanavs.htm

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >


Moderator:  Charles Mahan, Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Stun Guns
Variety of stun gun devices for your protection

Buy Pepper Spray
Worry about your family when you’re not around? Visit us today to protect everything you value.

Koryu.com
Accurate information on the ancient martial traditions of the Japanese samurai

C2 Taser
Protect yourself and loved ones from CRIME with the latest C2 Taser citizen model. Very effective.

 

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga