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#113242 - 11/18/04 05:17 PM Duel Sword Arts
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi, I was wondering if you knew of any sword martial arts that teach duel swords. I have deep experience with open hand combat such as Jeet Kune Do, Hagannah, and Weapon arts such as Kali/Escrima/Arnese and Knife classes. If any of you know or could suggest a form that teaches 2 swords. I would be greatly appreciative. Thanks.
-WarriorG

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#113243 - 11/18/04 08:08 PM Re: Duel Sword Arts
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
The use of two swords simultaneously is very rare within the Japanese Sword Arts world. Not unheard of, just rare. Perhaps the Chinese Sword arts have something to offer. What's more it is unlikely that your current experience will give you more than the slightest edge over rank beginners in a traditional sword art.

The principles of surviving a sword fight are somewhat different than the principles of unarmed and even knife fighting. This leads to different methods of moving, timing and manipulating distance. There is also typically a greater emphasis on proper form. "Proper" being relative to the particular school of sword art.

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#113244 - 11/18/04 09:20 PM Re: Duel Sword Arts
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by WarriorG:
Hi, I was wondering if you knew of any sword martial arts that teach duel swords. I have deep experience with open hand combat such as Jeet Kune Do, Hagannah, and Weapon arts such as Kali/Escrima/Arnese and Knife classes. If any of you know or could suggest a form that teaches 2 swords. I would be greatly appreciative. Thanks.
-WarriorG
[/QUOTE]

"Kali", eskrima, and arnis feature two swords (and/or two sticks)--sinawalli/doble baston.

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#113245 - 11/18/04 09:26 PM Re: Duel Sword Arts
Anonymous
Unregistered


In addition, the Renaissance Italians of the Bolognese School (headed by Achille Marozzo) has their due spade ("two swords") style. The weapon used was a stout-bladed, cut-and-thrust sword with a complex hilt (like a rapier, but not so narrow in the blade).

Later in the century (1570s to 1590s), the Italian two-sword style was used with rapiers--in England, this method was referred to as the "case of rapiers".

[This message has been edited by Armed_Man_Piker (edited 11-18-2004).]

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#113246 - 11/18/04 10:31 PM Re: Duel Sword Arts
Anonymous
Unregistered


Perhaps if what you are looking for is sparring with swords you might want to look into Kendo. Very few Kenjutsu schools do sparring even with bokken much less with steel swords.

C. Roman

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#113247 - 11/19/04 05:25 AM Re: Duel Sword Arts
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Charles Mahan:

What's more it is unlikely that your current experience will give you more than the slightest edge over rank beginners in a traditional sword art.
[/QUOTE]

Charles,

Considering that Filipino eskrima is a sword art too, and considering that eskrima was used successfully against kenjutsu from the late 16th century onwards, why do you assume what you posted above?

Just Curious,

A_M_P

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#113248 - 11/19/04 05:50 AM Re: Duel Sword Arts
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
I'll admit that by traditional sword I largely had traditional Japanese sword in mind. I am aware that eskrima can be applied to swords, but what I have seen of eskrima technique would not transfer to JSAs at all well. Eskrima would be no be preparation for JSAs than experience in European saber fencing. Which is not to say that you do not have a some advantage over a rank beginner, but you don't have much. Many of the things you might have some advantage in would be offset by habbits that need to be broken in order to learn the new system.

I would also argue that a great deal of experience in Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu does not give you a significant advantage when starting to train in Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, nor vice versa. The principles of these two schools of traditional Japanese sword arts are different enough that the benefits are balanced by the habbits which must be broken. How much of an advantage would you expect to gain in MJER or YSR when coming at it from an Eskrima base where the weapons aren't even the same.

The point is, everyone is a beginner when they start regardless of background. The only thing you can really bring with you that a beginner doesn't necessarily have is a good attitude and perhaps some observational skills.

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#113249 - 11/19/04 06:06 AM Re: Duel Sword Arts
Anonymous
Unregistered


Charles,

I actually misunderstood your original post. You were talking about one's previous MA background either helping or hindering one's progress in a new art (JSA, in this case), whilst I was thinking style vs. style.

My mistake. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif[/IMG]

Peace,

A_M_P

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#113250 - 11/19/04 09:22 AM Re: Duel Sword Arts
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5811
Loc: USA
Armed Man Piker

Quick question.

You mention above that escarmia was used vs kenjutsu "successfully from the late 16th cent. onward."

What events are you reffering too?

Not familier with matchs or duels involving kenjutsu and escrima in that time period.

Seriously just asking here.

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#113251 - 11/19/04 10:02 AM Re: Duel Sword Arts
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1736
Loc: Miami, Fl.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by WarriorG:
Hi, I was wondering if you knew of any sword martial arts that teach duel swords. I have deep experience with open hand combat such as Jeet Kune Do, Hagannah, and Weapon arts such as Kali/Escrima/Arnese and Knife classes. If any of you know or could suggest a form that teaches 2 swords. I would be greatly appreciative. Thanks.
-WarriorG
[/QUOTE]

To my knowledge, these two Kenjutsu ryu teach ryoto (Two sword) techniques: Niten- ichi Ryu (The famous Miyamoto Musashi's creation) and Tenshin Shoden Kattori Shinto Ryu. There might be more which I don't know about.
As to the two above, (Unfortunately) good look finding a qualified sensei!

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