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#112231 - 06/22/04 11:00 AM Re: i want 2 no if ther is a style of nin jitsu
DV8R Offline
Member

Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 34
[QUOTE]Originally posted by emma:
What are the differences between brazilian jui jitsu(i do) nd nin jitsu?[/QUOTE]

Well there is actualy Ninjitsu originally taught by the Koga Yamabushi Ninjitsu system originating hundreds of years ago in Japan and then brought to the United States by Frank DuX, and Ninjutsu. Budo Taijutsu "Ninjutsu" taught by Soke Masaaki Hatsumi which also developed hundreds of years ago in japan and was taught to Soke Hatsumi by his sensai Takamatsu Sensei. Both systems are very diverse in applying forms that would show similarities to alot of different arts including BJJ. Obviously there is a bit of emphazise on weapons which to my knowledge is not the focus of BJJ.

Check out http://www.ninjutsu.com and you will get a feel for the tradition and type of techniques we adhere too. Also you can do www.google.com search for "Masaaki Hatsumi". That should give you a good begining on true documented Budo Taijutsu. Also do a google.com search for Koga Yamabushi Ninjitsu.

[This message has been edited by DV8R (edited 06-22-2004).]

[This message has been edited by DV8R (edited 06-22-2004).]

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#112232 - 06/22/04 11:44 AM Re: i want 2 no if ther is a style of nin jitsu
DV8R Offline
Member

Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 34
[QUOTE]Originally posted by laf7773:
Frank Dux is the guy the movie Bloodsport was based on. He makes several claims to have been trained in ninjutsu but can't back it up. Rick Tew has trained in other arts too but what he does isn't ninjutsu. A good portion of what he teaches is purely flashy tricks like you might find in the movies.[/QUOTE]

Well I think you might want to read a bit of this. http://www.martialinfo.com/styles/survey/nameexp.asp?person=Jan%20Knudsen%20Jensen

I think you will find that Frank Dux is legit and as far as Im concerned hes not a scam but a very well founded artist. That was after about 10 minutes of google searches. So Im not sure where you got your info from as too him being a scam. Also you can check out http://www.frankdux.com for more info on him.

I have also read that Rick Tew seperated from Dux after a disagreement on how the RYU should be managed and thus began Tew Ryu.

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#112233 - 06/22/04 04:36 PM Re: i want 2 no if ther is a style of nin jitsu
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
You wouldn't also be a fan of George Dillman would you?

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#112234 - 06/22/04 05:03 PM Re: i want 2 no if ther is a style of nin jitsu
DV8R Offline
Member

Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 34
A fan? No.

I know who he is yes. I never studied anything directly from him. Why do u ask? Are you a fan of his?

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#112235 - 06/22/04 05:15 PM Re: i want 2 no if ther is a style of nin jitsu
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
I have done a lot of research on Dux. He has lied about pretty much everything he claims. He can't show proof of any instruction in the martial arts to back up his claims. The only teacher he names just happens to be dead. He can't prove his claim to something like 56 (I forget the exact number)knockouts in a single tournament. He can't prove ever winning the kumite or provide the name of a single person that competed in the same kumite. He has alluded in the past to serving in Vietnam but his discharge papers clearly states no Indochina or Korean service since August 5 1964. The discharge papers on his web site are more than likely fake since it claims he was awarded the good conduct medal with only a little over 6 months of service in the reserves. I'm not sure about the marine corp. but in the navy good conduct medals are only given after 3 years of consecutive service without incident. Since the marine corp. s a brother organization of the navy I would think they are the same.

There is also the fact that I know people in the Bujinkan that have trained with some of his higher ranking students and see video of him. His take on it was they had no concept of timing, distance and they left themselves open for counter on most all the techniques they used. Techniques that were as he put it pointless and flashy. There use of terminology is terrible.

The guy Iím talking about is ranked in the nose bleed section of the Bujinkan so I tend to take his word on this kind of thing.

Try doing some real research on Dux and not just on his site and that of his supporters.

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#112236 - 06/22/04 05:24 PM Re: i want 2 no if ther is a style of nin jitsu
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Lets not forget he faked demos too. He used stage glass bottles for breaking. He wuld also break what he told people was bullet proof glass that was actually plexiglass.

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#112237 - 06/22/04 10:05 PM Re: i want 2 no if ther is a style of nin jitsu
DV8R Offline
Member

Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 34
First off I understand that you just want to help people from making a possible training mistake. Ive heard this from other people as well. And I do understand your frame of mind.

Listen, honestly I dont care who he is on paper or what ranks he has or if he can prove this or that. I watched his and Tews techniques and they are ok in my book. Im not going to get into I know this guy or you dont know that guy crap...its a waste of time and is simply disrespectful, and dishonorable all the way around..period. And I honestly dont even want to think about any member of the Bujinkan dojo disrespecting any other form for any reason. The thought makes me sick to my stomach. If Duxs style is not for you than fine... its not a problem. If Tews style is not for you than fine. If the Sokes style is not for you than fine. Ninjutsu is not about identically copying anothers style, its about adapting the styles to your own personal form to fit you as a fighter. Sure theres tradition... You know how I feel about Traditional Ninjutsu "Budo Taijutsu". But there are other styles....like the style Dux and Tew have brought to the states. You should not discredit others and thier arts. Its just not right.

[QUOTE]There is also the fact that I know people in the Bujinkan that have trained with some of his higher ranking students and see video of him. His take on it was they had no concept of timing, distance and they left themselves open for counter on most all the techniques they used. Techniques that were as he put it pointless and flashy. There use of terminology is terrible.[/QUOTE]

Well this is because the Bujinkan is the Bujinkan and I personally feel that no other styles can really counter much of it. Isnt that the whole idea? ;] So I can see this as being a fact with most people trying to train with any Bujinkan members.

Well all I know is that I will study both Budo Taijutsu and Koga Yamabushi Ninjitsu and adapt them both. I also am begining study in Sayoc Kali knife fighting. You should check it out too if your not familiar. http://www.sayoc.com hit the forums.

At this point I dont think this subject needs any more from either of us because between the both of us we can pretty much argue and support each other endlessly...lol.

Both Dux and Tew and well known and are exceptional practitioners of thier crafts. Im sure you can agree with that. My hats off to both of them for doing what they love to do and being sucessful at it as well.

[This message has been edited by DV8R (edited 06-22-2004).]

[This message has been edited by DV8R (edited 06-22-2004).]

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#112238 - 06/23/04 02:20 AM Re: i want 2 no if ther is a style of nin jitsu
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
The system that Dux and Tew claim only exist in there minds. They will tell you that they teach "ninjitsu" and it is different than "ninjutsu". The only difference is the romanization, just like kempo/kenpo or ju jutsu/ju jitsu. Dux's "ninjitsu" is actually a meld of systems he picked up when he was younger. According to one of his own black belts most of Dux's system was actually put together by the other black belts training with him and didn't come from any skills of his. Most of his bb's had training in other systems prior to training with him, what they learned in other systems was put together to make this system. The simple fact is what Tew is teaching is not ninjutsu of any sort and did not come from the Koga Yamabushi. There system is mostly flash on purpose so it appeals to what people think ninjutsu should be. Even though there are some decent techniques most of the time they are not taught properly and unless you have had extensive training before you will not be able to apply them.

"Well this is because the Bujinkan is the Bujinkan and I personally feel that no other styles can really counter much of it. Isnt that the whole idea? ;] So I can see this as being a fact with most people trying to train with any Bujinkan members."

He was referring to there skill in general. It doesn't matter what you study, if you don't know how to apply it or have a proper concept of what it takes to be effective it will show to those who do.

"And I honestly donít even want to think about any member of the Bujinkan dojo disrespecting any other form for any reason."

There was no disrespect intended in the conversation. He was simply stating fact.

"But there are other styles....like the style Dux and Tew have brought to the states. You should not discredit others and thier arts. Its just not right."

They didn't bring any system to the states from Japan or anywhere else. Dux has even gone so far as to say his system isn't Japanese anymore, only that he based it on Japanese teachings. If it was they wouldn't have so much trouble with terminology like having the wrong definitions of Japanese terms like hanshi. Like you said, Iím only trying to keep people from making a mistake in training, not disrespecting them. Tew just made a bad choice of being connected with Dux, Iím sure he's a nice guy. Most of the Dux students Iíve met are. They also tend to leave the Dux system after seeing what other systems are like. Others prefer the flashy moves regardless of if they are practical.

If you want to learn real ninjutsu stick with Bujinkan or Genbukan.

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#112239 - 06/23/04 08:06 AM Re: i want 2 no if ther is a style of nin jitsu
DV8R Offline
Member

Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 34
[QUOTE]If you want to learn real ninjutsu stick with Bujinkan or Genbukan[/QUOTE]

I agree that Bujinkan/Genbukan, like I said in previous posts is the way to go as a primary system. No doubt about it.

Honestly like I said before I dont really care about Dux at all ...good or bad. If Koga is real or not I will find out sooner or later. Koga, Tew, or Dux are not something I put much thought into at all either. I feel for the most part about Tew and Dux as I feel about.... and forgive me for bringing this name into this forum.... Ashida Kim. So that in itself should tell you alot of how I really feel about this Dux, Tew debate without being disrespectful to even Ashida. The just of it is... They all practice a system, if they want to call it Ninjitsu...ok fine. Will I study with Rick or Dux? No. Why? I will study with Soke Hatsumi. Do I think that Dux and Tew are frauds? Its not my right to say either way really. They do what they do, if people find value in that then great for them. I do feel however that Tew should let people know about his history and the history of his art. He has to know that people have instilled a considerable amount of doubt in his instruction by now. Unless of course he does not go online... which I highly doubt. I know if I was Rick I would take some of that money and fly my butt to Japan for awhile and get some formal Bujinkan from Soke Hatsumi to just clean this all up once and for all. I really think he would be a great student and instructor. Hes very good on his feet and very acrobaticly inclined. I have read alot of really terrible things said about Dux online and do take that into consideration whilst constructing my opinion of him, But I will not say hes this or that until it comes out of his mouth personally. I just cannot let myself follow the flock and just believe it because everyone else does. Im sure you can understand that. You know Im for the Bujinkan so you know where my mind and dedication is. I just wont be disrespectful.

[This message has been edited by DV8R (edited 06-23-2004).]

[This message has been edited by DV8R (edited 06-23-2004).]

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#112240 - 07/18/04 06:25 AM Re: i want 2 no if ther is a style of nin jitsu
Anonymous
Unregistered


I've actually trained with Rick Tew, you all seem to be in quite a fuss about his style so let me clear up a few things. First of all he doesn't talk much about his past because he doesn't believe in developing fame by mentioning someone elseís name. With that mentality how would you ever know if it was the best student of a certain teacher or the worst, all they would have to say is I learned under (insert name here) and a hush would fall over the crowd. Second of all his technique is not strictly Ninjitsu and he doesn't claim it to be, if you actually read his take on it all he sees the martial arts as a science, there are only so many techniques and movements that are effective and not a waste of time if not dangerous to do in a real fight. Third of all the things you see on the website are not all practical techniques, to judge something purely on what you see on a site instead of actually taking the time to experience it is ignorant. Many things are taught at his school, everything from video production to survival training. However I've personally spent 6 days a week training in his dojo the majority of which was on fighting and actual fighting not flashy things you'd see on TV. Guys in the ring punching, kicking, throwing, sweeping, and doing anything we can to win a match. There was order and technique too but the focus is not what looks good in the end you could do something totally random and if it won you the match great. I guess what I'm trying to say is don't knock it until you've tried it, in a fight it isn't your teacher's name that is going to save you, it's how you utilize your assets to overcome your opponents. Dux I can't really speak on Rick doesn't really talk much about him. I've talked with him on the phone once briefly and about nothing important but that is about it. I really don't think you should say much about him either with out actually meeting the man, but I don't know him and don't really feel the need to take his side in anything. Rick I know and respect. I've fought with him, trained with him, even hung out with him. He is an all around good guy, funny, fun, and very nice, as well as tough, skilled, and stern. Maybe you should meet the man and see the real thing instead of getting caught up in a great deal of hearsay and rumors.

"An open fist travels faster than a closed one; the same can be said of the mind."

[This message has been edited by kai (edited 07-18-2004).]

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