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#112027 - 06/15/04 06:35 PM Re: Blade tricks and skills
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well I think ill add my opinion as well maybe

To be honest, I have no problems for people practising tricks

I mean I started out being intrested in the whole sword fighting scene after watching films like Star wars and im sure some people also started in a similar fasion...

But I also respect the view that to people that practise Kendo ,Iaido etc its more than just sword fighting and tricks are of little use in a sword fight.

But how can tricks be so wrong, if your sensable about it? Use a broomstick! A little expermintation helps you develop your skills. Its also what got me started in the whole thing so it must have something going for it.

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#112028 - 06/16/04 08:01 AM Re: Blade tricks and skills
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5821
Loc: USA
Silversnake

"How can tricks be so wrong."

Simple--if you actually have to ask the question "how can doing tricks be so wrong" then you:

A-Just don't get it. Despite all the efforts of folks to explain EXACTLY why "tricks" and weapons of any kind don't belong in the same sentence.

B-Should NOT be allowed to handle any kind of weapon useable item.

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#112029 - 06/16/04 11:30 AM Re: Blade tricks and skills
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
First of all, I think everyone needs to think of swords as a gun that cannot be unloaded. They are extremely dangerous 24/7.

Second, I'd like to point out that all serious sword art practitioners know full well that they will never use what they study so hard. We are aware of that fact, thank you. That said we do it for a variety of reasons. Everyone has their own. For many it's as simple as wanting to participate in the preservation of one of the few remaining oral traditions. The problem is that since no one will ever use their techniques in combat, they cannot be verified.

This is a very significant problem within the sword arts. Technique creep must be avoided at all cost, and that requires that we train with the attitude that our lives very much will depend on these techniques one day. If you do not train in this way then you are dancing, not training. This attitude of, train like you mean it, has a tendency to spill into our posts a bit. Those of us who train know what another sword student means when they write this kind of stuff. Sometimes, outsiders don't get it, and we sound like raving lunatics who hope to get into a fight one day.

But yeah, tricks are good for impressing the ignorant masses, but useless for true training. Folks involved in legitimate traditions will not be impressed, and will think very poorly of you indeed. Some will in fact be offended.

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#112030 - 06/17/04 05:11 PM Re: Blade tricks and skills
Anonymous
Unregistered


it's nice that everyone has their theology on why you should NOT practice tricks. So far as I have seen, Javaman is the only person who has actually answered Mojo's question. If you wish to post your theology on why people should NOT do tricks, make your own subject and post it there.

But since you people seem so bent on defeating each other in this post, hopefully what I have to say will cease your endless quarrel.

When I first came into Aikido a long long time ago, tricks were what drew me there. Once I realized there wasn't much to the tricks, and that the art itself was awesome, I studied the arts and have come a long way. It will probably be the same with Mojo. But now I am getting off my point. As I said, tricks drew me into the matial arts. If you go around telling everyone that tricks are stupid and useless, that takes away their motivation and reason to join the martial and sword arts. That's like spoiling a movie or video game before the person has watched or played it.

Oh and by the way, Javaman, I give you props on taking on just about everyone here alone.


ph34r m4 l33tn3ss

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#112031 - 06/17/04 06:00 PM Re: Blade tricks and skills
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
I've also seen more people leave the martial arts because it wasn't like the tricks they saw. Why should we alter the reality of the arts to attract people? Showing off tricks to attract customers is wrong. Look at it like false advertising.

There is also a big difference in the unbendable arm and spinning a blade inches from your body.

If you started training because of tricks at some point someone told you those tricks were pointless. My first post was based on all the previous posts by mojo, not just the one in this thread.

Tricks are not beneficial to the arts, education is. That is what everyone with the exception of Javaman has been trying to do is educate mojo on what a sword art or any martial art is really about.

I am, however, glad you feel comfortable enough here to chastise everyone in the thread with your first post here.

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#112032 - 06/17/04 06:54 PM Re: Blade tricks and skills
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5821
Loc: USA
H3llfr3

Couple of things. Ok-a long couple of things.

The first poster asked if the question was innapproate (sp) he got his answer in the form of opinion as the the place "tricks" had in the martial arts.

ie none.

In answer to your post--nothing is a bigger waste of time than someone coming to dojo that got all excited about "tricks" then finding out that MA in general and weapons in particualr are anything but "looking cool" (javamans statement)"tricks" etc.

Its hard freaking work--and the ones that drain away most of the teachers time, effort and sweat--the ones that quit in the largest number (as far as I am concerned) are the ones that walk in the door with unrealistic expectations--mainly from tv-movies/dvds--the ones that see all the "tricks and come to think of "tricks" as the result and purpose of training.

Anything that can be done to educate people about what the arts are REALLY like is a big step in the right direction.

It may turn some people off--but it also may save some poor SOB from wasting his time, energy and money on training they don't really want and is not going to make them happy.

Education--painful or not--usually beats ignorance--which is always more painful (and usually more expensive) in the long run.

More to the point--as has been made many, many, many, many times.

WEAPONS OF ANY KIND ARE POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS--BOTH TO THE USER AND THOSE AROUND THEM.

IT IS IRRESPONSIBLE TO ENCOURGE CHILDERN TO "PLAY" DO "TRICKS" OR DO ANYTHING TO "LOOK COOL" WITH THEM.

WEAPONS ARE NOT TOYS.

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#112033 - 06/18/04 07:03 AM Re: Blade tricks and skills
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5821
Loc: USA
Thought of new example that might be a bit clearer.

The guy that started this post is 16 years old right?

Think of the result if he wrote to a NASCAR driver and told him he were interested in learning to do "tricks" with a car.

What do think the answer is going to be??

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#112034 - 06/18/04 12:11 PM Re: Blade tricks and skills
Anonymous
Unregistered


laf7773 and cxt,

If you think the first post question was inappropriate, then please say so. I kind of find it hard to believe that 'tricks', the basic moves that train you, are inappropriate.

Next, I never said "show off tricks to attract customers", I said tricks were what drew me to the arts. I was watching people practice while getting gas (the dojo had a glass wall and was next to the gas station).

I also never said the arts were easy. Where do you think we get our 18 year old black belts? Some kids with "unrealistic expectations" got into it. Guess what? Those kids' parents kept them in it because they made them keep a commitment. A lot of the tae kwon do class of our dojo are 1st and 2nd dan black belt teenagers.

As for the NASCAR example, the 16 yr. old kid that asks to learn some tricks will not be dissapointed since the kid will not have a NASCAR car. The letter would most likely say how to do a doughnut with a regular car.


ph34r m4 l33tn3ss

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#112035 - 06/18/04 12:45 PM Re: Blade tricks and skills
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
If you think the first post question was inappropriate, then please say so. I kind of find it hard to believe that 'tricks', the basic moves that train you, are inappropriate.

This is the problem. Tricks are NOT the basic moves for training people in any art, especially Japanese sword arts.

Tricks are for people who don't know better or want to impress people that are uninformed on the arts. This is why poor instructors show off these tricks to prospective students in order to get them into training. This same type of instructor tends to have a contract so the student will have to stay for the length of the contract after they find out these tricks are useless. The only people this concept works on are people who have little or no knowledge of the arts.

Encouraging teenagers to practice these tricks with a sword, sharp or not, is wrong.

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#112036 - 06/18/04 03:12 PM Re: Blade tricks and skills
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5821
Loc: USA
H3ll


If you honestly think a professional driver is going to give a 16 year old kid tips and pointers and how to do "dounuts" with his car---well I don't really know how to respond to that--you can't possibly be serious--at least I sure hope not.

Thats just not responsible or reasonable or safe.

A pro would know better and would respond accordingly.

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