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#111502 - 08/15/03 07:34 AM unarmed or armed?
haiazuki Offline
Member

Registered: 08/14/03
Posts: 173
Loc: Manila, Philippines
Hi! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]
Most martial arts teach unarmed methods of fighting first before learning armed combat. Like the samurai, they were first taught hand to hand combat before they were taught to use sword or other weapons.

The Philippines MA Arnis, however, teaches fighting with weapons first (now arnis sticks, before a bolo and a small knife) before they learn unarmed means of defense.

Which do you think should be learned first? Or maybe learning them simultaneously?

Personally, I want to learn empty-handed MA first before using weapons.

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#111503 - 08/16/03 01:47 PM Re: unarmed or armed?
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by haiazuki:
Hi! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]
Most martial arts teach unarmed methods of fighting first before learning armed combat. Like the samurai, they were first taught hand to hand combat before they were taught to use sword or other weapons.

The Philippines MA Arnis, however, teaches fighting with weapons first (now arnis sticks, before a bolo and a small knife) before they learn unarmed means of defense.

Which do you think should be learned first? Or maybe learning them simultaneously?

Personally, I want to learn empty-handed MA first before using weapons.
[/QUOTE]

Samurai trained mainly in what came to be called Kenjutsu, which translates into "sword art". This is actually somewhat of a misnomer because, though it certainly involves sword training, most Kenjutsu ryu included in the curriculum other weapons, such as the naginata (Japanese halbred), yari (Spear), jo (Four foot staff) and/ or bo (Six foot staff). Included also was what some ryu called "mu- to", which translates into "no (Or without) swords". This was a collection of unarmed grappling/ striking techniques which later came to be called ju- jutsu. These were meant to be used in case the samurai were ever to find himself unarmed and under attack, but were considered off secondary importance. The main thrust of Kenjutsu training was toward ARMED combat.

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#111504 - 08/17/03 08:45 PM Re: unarmed or armed?
haiazuki Offline
Member

Registered: 08/14/03
Posts: 173
Loc: Manila, Philippines
Yeah, i'm aware that the Samurai did not only know how to use the katana. I've read somewhere that they are required to at least 7 kinds of arts. 5 for weapons training and two for hand to hand combat, i think.

I guess they learned the weapons part first.
I suppose you take the weapons training part first before the unarmed means of combat.

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#111505 - 08/18/03 01:49 PM Re: unarmed or armed?
Vulk Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 24
Loc: Pretoria, Gauteng, South Afric...
Well, I don't about MAGon, but that's certainly true for me. My "base" is sword training - when I start doing unarmed combat, I'll be building on top of that. I didn't plan it that way because I wanted to train in the same order a samurai would have done or anything like that. It just turned out that way by chance. I started doing sword training pretty much on a whim, and I only started to consider taking up unarmed combat later on. I'm planning on getting to at least 1st dan in either Kendo or Iaido before I take up some form unarmed combat, because I want to have at least a basic grounding in weapons combat first.

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#111506 - 08/19/03 09:14 PM Re: unarmed or armed?
haiazuki Offline
Member

Registered: 08/14/03
Posts: 173
Loc: Manila, Philippines
Yeah! i didn't plan on learning armed combat when i started out with karate. But i'm thinking of learning Iaido, kendo or Arnis.

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#111507 - 08/25/03 09:15 PM Re: unarmed or armed?
Arn007 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6
Loc: El Centro, CA. United States
[QUOTE]Originally posted by haiazuki:
Hi! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]
Most martial arts teach unarmed methods of fighting first before learning armed combat. Like the samurai, they were first taught hand to hand combat before they were taught to use sword or other weapons.

The Philippines MA Arnis, however, teaches fighting with weapons first (now arnis sticks, before a bolo and a small knife) before they learn unarmed means of defense.

Which do you think should be learned first? Or maybe learning them simultaneously?

Personally, I want to learn empty-handed MA first before using weapons.
[/QUO

I am a student of escrima arnis,the filipino martial arts start out with one or two stick ,progressing to pocket sticks, knife,staff,etc. The advanced level being empty hand. In the filipino martial arts emphasizes on movements,and postioning not so much like tradional japanese, chinese systems that are set (stuck) in certain techniques and stances. not to take away from thes styles, they all have their attributes. the majority of FMA break down to five angles of attack 1 downward diagonal strike from right to left. 2 another diagonal strike left to right. 3 a horizontal strike from the side. 4 horizontal strike from the other side. 5 a thrust(stabjab). we train with about 12 targets but they can be broken down into the five angles. by learning movements you can fight with any weapon even one you've never held before you just adapt to the charterstics of the weapon. example an attacker tries to stab you(angle 5) with a blade (you also have a blade) the technique used to counter would be the same as if the attacker tries to throw a straight jab (no weapons) you would use the same movements,but adjust to the charcterstics of the weapon, instead parrying ,slashing then stabbing. you would parry, throw a hook(slash),straght right(stab). In essence of having to learn a comletely diffrent system, you get it in package,(not to say it's the best)but in 1-2 year(s) the averge " Joe" could defend himself empty handed , or pick up any hand weilding weapon and be a threat.

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