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#111378 - 09/05/03 08:54 PM Re: The new world weapons
bb39 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/05/03
Posts: 12
Isn't it funny that a 4 year old kid can pick up a pistol point it and fire it, killing the worlds best soldier? Meanwhile it usually takes a skilled swordsmen to kill another. I mean even an archer has to know how to pull back the arrow right. And also modern weapons take the skill out of war. Its really the more rich, more technologically advanced country that will win a war.

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#111379 - 09/07/03 03:27 PM Re: The new world weapons
Syrio Offline
Member

Registered: 09/02/03
Posts: 74
Times have NOT changed:

We hear the glory stories of the samurai and their bushido but there were in actuality an abundance of ronin, bandits, outlaws, others who refused to follow this code. Most of them could not manage to live a prosperous life by following that code and so chose to break it, thus the thug, same as today.

The thug image of the samurai has since been glorified, just like the image of the modern thug.

Weapons are designed to harm other human beings, usually to kill, and in my experience the perception of honor usually belonged to the person standing (which is why guns replaced the sword in katana-crazed Japan in the first place, guns win).

The study of martial arts is an excellent means of self-improvement but the basis of this concept is still war, and it's overall purpose in my mind will always be to ensure that the practitioner makes it home after a battle. The reason the styles we know today are famous is because they were an innovation during some period in some nation where everyone was holding on to an archaic form of combat. I love the sword, but for me to consider myself a martial artist in modern day I HAVE to know the gun, if for no other reason to defend against it. I feel there is honor to be found in both, and dishonor as well.

In my mind, there is small difference between the develpments in sharpness and strength of the katana giving an advantage to any wealthy "punk" in feudal Japan and the similar ease with which the average, untrained (and yet still threatened) "thug" on the street can use a gun.

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#111380 - 09/08/03 07:55 AM Re: The new world weapons
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Syrio: Good post!

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#111381 - 10/17/03 11:45 PM Re: The new world weapons
e2gm Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/17/03
Posts: 18
Well...
If you let me speak...i mean type ^^;;
What actually has changed is not really a matter of weapon technology...
It's the human factor....

All we have done in using either swords or guns are nothing but to kill...
It's no different.. a tool for killing...
one may favour the swords instead of the guns, vice versa....

Now, what has changed is the human attitude...
Nowadays, we have less and lesser moral value... that's what eventually degrades the guns...
Personally, I am a pro for sword... but let face it man... that's the truth...

A question to consider...
Both guns and swords are not art or anything... but it is a way of killing...
Can any of you kill? Honour in killing using sword? Guns? They are all the same...
nothing more than signal of killinng certain person.

Simply said...
Humans are getting more and more degraded and eventually lower their own status...
because of their stupid, idiotic, self interest way...
Thank you for reading, hope any of u doesn't get mad at me, i mean I can't use well any weapons.. I'll be dead in few seconds facing u guys ><

--
Regards,
e2gm

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#111382 - 10/19/03 02:49 AM Re: The new world weapons
Zenmeister Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/19/03
Posts: 18
Loc: Honea Path, South Carolina, US...
In regards to firearms, especially handguns being the tool if choice for thugs,guess what? Edged and blunt weapons are used many more times in the commission of crimes by untrained individuals simply because access to those types of armament is very easy and can be found very quickly in the form of a metal pipe, ball bat, box cutter, kitchen knife, etc. It takes no in depth experience to sneak up behind somebody with one of these crude weapons does it?

As classical Asian weaponry, they did seek the most modern and practical weapons availible. The whole feudal era of ancient Japan was ended with the introduction of firearms and the one who wielded alot of them, in this case the Tokugawa rejime which ended the long lasting civil wars. Best tool for the job at time and honorable warriors did not hesitate to use them.

[This message has been edited by Zenmeister (edited 10-19-2003).]

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#111383 - 10/19/03 03:01 AM Re: The new world weapons
Zenmeister Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/19/03
Posts: 18
Loc: Honea Path, South Carolina, US...
As for firearms being the choice of "sloths" and those who own them being such, I welcome you to a target session with my Gov't model .45 automatic and hit six 6 inch by 6 inch steel plates in rapid succession at 25 yards. This takes concentration, timing, trigger and breath control, conditioning, and just tons of practice. Its a whole diffent world than the gangster who shoots at random from close ange, just as learning kobudo is leaps and bounds ahead of somebody using a homemade knife to rob or injure innocent people.
This is a matter of perception and understanding the world around you, for there are those who would ban the recreational use of ANYTHING which qualifies as a weapon, or anything that can be perceived as a weapon. To bash me as a recreational shooter is to condemn yourself as a martial artist doing a sai, bo, nunchaka, sword kata, etc. intended as training to take out an adversary.

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#111384 - 10/29/03 04:56 PM Re: The new world weapons
bb39 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/05/03
Posts: 12
everybody keeps saying that a sword and a gun are both items for killing. and thus saying that it is not an art. in fact is killing not an art? i'm not saying i'm some freak who admires people who kill, i'm just saying that to bring another man death is an art, regardless of the weapon he chooses to use in the process of doing so.

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#111385 - 12/23/03 05:31 AM Re: The new world weapons
Ozmo Offline
Member

Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 142
Loc: Kuopio, Finland
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bb39:
Isn't it funny that a 4 year old kid can pick up a pistol point it and fire it, killing the worlds best soldier? Meanwhile it usually takes a skilled swordsmen to kill another. I mean even an archer has to know how to pull back the arrow right. And also modern weapons take the skill out of war. Its really the more rich, more technologically advanced country that will win a war. [/QUOTE]


Congratulations. Your post was sufficiently idiotic and ignorant to motivate me into registering on these boards, just to get to reply to you.

First of all, the comparisons you make are completely wrong. The 4 year old kid (who would be unable to hold a real gun btw) shooting the worlds best soldier would be the same as a 4 year old kid hitting the best swordsman in the head with a sword. Clearly this proves that swords are a weapon for sissy girls since they can kill you just like that! A true warrior with skill should use his teeth, since they take skill to kill with.

If anything, guns have brought more subtelty and tactics into violence. No longer can you run around like an idiot, swinging your sword around, since that'll just get you killed. You have to pay attention to your surroundings, take cover and keep your head down. Yes, there were "cool" and clean duels with swords in the past, just like in the movies, but you shouldn't compare them to a punk shooting a random passer-by on the street. There is skill in fighting with modern weapons as well, imagine 2 people with guns in a place filled with cover and obstacles tryig to kill each other, like in many James Bond movies. Better yet, imagine 10 trained soldiers and 10 people who don't know the first thing about warfare in the middle of the forest. Then imagine how it'll end up if both are given the same equipment and told to kill each other. Clearly it must be luck since there is no skill involved with firearms.

Fight "back in the good old days" with swords weren't anywhere near as clean as you'd think from "historically accurate" sources such as Hollywood and the like. The common image people with romantic thoughts on swords get on fighting with firearms is a World War 1 type place where individual skill is useless and surviving is through mere luck. If anything, it was more like that in the age of the sword than now. These people are forgetting the fact that most swordfights would take place in large battles where you would end up having people gang up on you, drowing in a puddle because of your armor or getting an arrow in your back at best.

Modern weapons don't automatically win either you know. Take the impressive resistance of the Iraqi freedom fighters against the occupying American army for example.

Yes, I know my post is a huge mess of rambling. It happens.

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#111386 - 12/26/03 12:10 AM Re: The new world weapons
Hogtooth Offline
Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 78
Loc: USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bb39:
Isn't it funny that a 4 year old kid can pick up a pistol point it and fire it, killing the worlds best soldier? Meanwhile it usually takes a skilled swordsmen to kill another. I mean even an archer has to know how to pull back the arrow right. And also modern weapons take the skill out of war. Its really the more rich, more technologically advanced country that will win a war. [/QUOTE]

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#111387 - 12/26/03 01:02 AM Re: The new world weapons
Hogtooth Offline
Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 78
Loc: USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bb39:
And also modern weapons take the skill out of war. [/QUOTE]

This is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a long time. It is very obvious you have never been to war yourself. Modern weapons have done just the oppisite. Cover, concealment, and movement have become elevated skills. The ability to avoid death at 500 meters ( the standard effective range of most assault rifles on a point target) takes an incredible amount of skil. As weapons have become more deadly at longer ranges, the skill required to survive an attack by them must increase proportionately. As a US Marine and a combat veteran I can personally attest to the amount of proficiency and skill required to survive in a modern war zone.
I equate the modern day warrior and his rifle to that of the warriors of fuedal Japan. It is much more than just a firearm. It is a shield, a club, a spear, your best friend. This rifle is your life and you spend day and night with it for years, mastering it and yourself. It becomes a part of your very soul. Failure to make it so can quickly cost you your life on the battlefield. Take a look at any US Marine Infantryman and you will see a warrior who is a master of his trade, and highly skilled with the tools of that trade. (be sure to tell him you think he has no war skills. When you wake up, you may have a different oppinion.)
SSgt K. Peters USMC
MOS 0321/8541

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