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#111045 - 10/11/00 03:08 PM new topic
Deborah K-B Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/27/00
Posts: 12
Well, since we seem to have "started over again," I guess it's up to me to come up with a new topic. Let's see.....

Our group primarily studies Muso Shinden ryu iaido a form of Japanese swordsmanship that can usually be traced back to about 1585 or so, though MSR as a system seems to date from the late 19th century in its present form.

Most people think iaido (if they know anything about it at all) consists of solo kata with a practice sword. However, "old-school" type practitioners use shinken (real swords) and do partner kata with wooden swords in addition to solo kata.

The question is, how important are partner forms in swordsmanship? It sounds funny, until you realize there are more than a few iai practitioners who never do partner forms. Enlighten me: do Korean sword practitioners also do partner forms?

What about cutting practice?

Deborah K-B

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#111046 - 06/08/01 05:38 PM Re: new topic
Yojimbo558 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/00
Posts: 253
Loc: Marina, Ca. USA
Hi Deborah,

Partner practise is essential. I do a Japanese style called Bujinkan, and from my experience, the people who never do partner practise are sorely missing a crucial element.

The reason I state this is that by practising with a partner your blocks and strikes etc. become more precise. The people I've seen who practise purely solo often have their weapons improperly placed so that if they were trying to do a block, they would be both in-effective and in some cases incurr serious injury.

The 1st time I ever got to cut was also a huge learning experience...which I feel is also crucial to someone's training.

I was at a Shinkendo seminar taught by Toshiro Obata Sensei, during a morning session, he gave about 30 of us the opportunity to experience 3 cuts each.

While I was told that it took no muscle for the blade to cut through the tatami mat...it was another thing to experirnce this altogether! I was amazed how easily the blade cut through the tatami mat.

It's this lack of effort that allows for a great deal of the speed of the sword, both in striking and parrying. Those who only do solo or partner are missing a big part of their education if they've never cut.

Those are my two cents,

Eric Bookin

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#111047 - 07/28/01 02:13 PM Re: new topic
Brewer Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/01
Posts: 468
Loc: Arizona,U.S.
Hello Deborah K,
I ran across a site the other day while I was video hunting and saw a couple of ones pertaining to your subject.One was a video on korean kata's using the sword and another one on partner forms also with the sword.Now you're going to have to forgive me because I really can't remember the site.I will go hunting today to see if I can find it again and I'll let you know where to find them.
Your Brother in the Arts [IMG]http://bbs.fightingarts.com/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#111048 - 08/01/01 12:25 PM Re: new topic
NINPOMANIAC Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/01/01
Posts: 24
Loc: Orillia, ON, Canada
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Yojimbo558:
Hi Deborah,

Partner practise is essential. I do a Japanese style called Bujinkan, and from my experience, the people who never do partner practise are sorely missing a crucial element.

Amen, my Budo Brother! Practice without a partner is good for attaining a level of skill in the basics, as the Bujinkan's 'Sanshin no Kata' demonstrate.

Beyond this basic skill development, however, spirited exchanges of technique with a willing partner are the only way to achieve reliable and measureable skills in actual combat.

If you practice a martial art for exercise or personal development purposes, train alone, by all means.

If you practice martial arts to survive a violent encounter with a motivated attacker, train with a like-minded partner. Period.

The sword skills of the Bujinkan are decidedly pragmatic and utilitarian, and are not the stuff of championship forms competition. This is likely due to the fact that the early ninja-to (short sword) was little more than a long knife of questionable quality, and treated as just another tool in the ninja's tool box. The strokes are more like hacking blows than graceful arcs, and were designed to knock an opponent down or away, as much as they were to cut him/her. Nothin' pretty about that, I'm afraid.

Anyway, I have some experience with Musashi-style Iaido - and I love it! I just have a real penchant for practicality, and that requires a partner, IMHO.

Ganbatte kudasai!

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#111049 - 08/21/01 07:43 PM Re: new topic
mewseido Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/21/01
Posts: 2
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Deborah K-B:

The question is, how important are partner forms in swordsmanship? It sounds funny, until you realize there are more than a few iai practitioners who never do partner forms. Enlighten me: do Korean sword practitioners also do partner forms?

What about cutting practice?

Deborah K-B

in tendo ryu naginata you NEED the partner. they are 2-person forms. and as far as practice and learning the techniques, i have found that the meaning of techniques that are odd, strange, weird and why am i doing that - become clear with the real target. (not easy to do, you understand, just clear to understand.)

as for cutting - it will be a long time before anyone trusts me with a live blade naginata. (the horror, the terror!! [IMG]http://bbs.fightingarts.com/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] )

mew

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#111050 - 10/19/01 04:58 PM Re: new topic
Brewer Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/01
Posts: 468
Loc: Arizona,U.S.
Hello Deborah K,
If you type in Korean kumdo in your search engine I think it will take you to some very interesting sites,Kumdo is Korean for Japanese Kendo.Or try, World Kumdo Association
Take Care
Your Brother in the Arts

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#111051 - 11/15/01 01:21 AM Re: new topic
islandtime Offline
OG

Registered: 11/14/01
Posts: 15
Loc: Saraland AL USA
Hi Deborah,
The Iaido style I am training in ,MugaiRyu/Kuniba-Ha doesn't have dual partner training,that I have seen anyway. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]
But,, our bunkai training is done kendo style with shanai.This adds a real touch to the training and some point of reference to the techniques I am learning.

GEne

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