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#110635 - 04/15/05 01:52 PM Any comments on the X26?
Anonymous
Unregistered


My department is starting to implement Taser International's X26 model. I've undergone the in-house training for the taser, and I can start carrying it when I go back to work on Tuesday, but before I start carrying it I want to do more research about some of the X26-related fatalities and get some more input from other people who've actually used them in a practical enviorment. I know some of the people on my shift have actually stopped carrying their OC or their extendables because they find it so effective. I'm not going to go to that extreme by any means, but it seems like it's going to be a very effective intermediate weapon. But before I start making space on my duty belt (which is going to be an adventure in and of itself) I'd like to know if anyone here has had any practical experiences they'd like to share. Any replies would be great. Thanks.

[This message has been edited by Shellback (edited 04-15-2005).]

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#110636 - 04/15/05 10:35 PM Re: Any comments on the X26?
Anonymous
Unregistered


The X-26 with it's exoskeleton holster takes aup a lot less space on your belt than the M-26.

As far as fatalities, it's anyone's guess. Who knows what combination of drug influence or medical history your suspect has. You can count on every usage to be critiqued and protested by every tree hugging ACLU bandit out there, no matter what the outcome.

Don't dump the rest of your tools by any means. The baton has other uses and OC can be more effective in clearing a crowd. Depending on your agency's policy, there are times when you might be authorized OC but not Taser and have to wait or escalate things unnecessarily.

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#110637 - 04/16/05 02:03 PM Re: Any comments on the X26?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks, Fletch.
The main fatality I wanted to look into was this incident. But I doubt I'll ever administer 5 discharges to a single suspect, especially an older one.

But as far as the rest of my gear goes, I don't plan on dropping any of my other intermediate weapons by any means, they've been far too useful up to this point, and I don't see how a taser could really change that. Some of the deputies are fairly liberal with thier tasers, but just as a personal standard I think the situation will have to escalate pretty high on the force continuum before I even consider tasing the suspect.

But one more question, do you know anything about the new civilian model, the X26c?

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#110638 - 04/16/05 03:29 PM Re: Any comments on the X26?
Anonymous
Unregistered


The Taser is building a rep as a Remote Control tool for Use of Force (unfortunately).

Once shot, if the probes are still attached and you have good wires, the practice tends to be to give verbal commands from a distance until the person is prone with hands behind the back. If they do not comply, they get another 5 second ride and so on until they comply.

For someone like me who would rather go hands on, it is like someone keeping me on a leash. I want to get in there as soon as they hit the ground and get physical control/ hands on. I have had to be reminded several times to stay back and wait for the Taser to do it's job, even if it means standing there and watching the perp take several cycles of the shock. This is the time when those drug (cocaine, meth, etc) factors can come into play.

The goal is to minimize injuries by minimizing the time spent manipulating the perp. Makes sense but it is still frustrating.

I know that the X-26c is available to Non Sworn Officers and is scaled down from the LEO model but that is all.

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#110639 - 04/16/05 08:00 PM Re: Any comments on the X26?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I think that the x-26 is a very effective tool. On the death thing, from all i've read and seen on it, its kinda like the carotid restraint, it works but people who are on drugs run a higher risk of death. By the way, did you have to be tased to carry? I did but personally i think it was ridculous to do so. After all they didn't shoot me with a gun, before they let me carry it. what do yall think?

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#110640 - 04/16/05 08:08 PM Re: Any comments on the X26?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, I hope it doesn't become the ultimate intermediate weapon that some people belive it to be, but I will carry it and just keep in mind that it's another tool at my disposal, not the only one.

Which brings me to my next question, since you seem to have practical experience with the taser, Fletch, how secure is the exoskeleton holster? It seemed solid enough during the training, but nobody was actively trying to disarm me. I do see that it's unlikely that someone will try to go for my taser when I have a firearm, and that it's easier to protect yourself from being disarmed with a cross-draw holster, but Mr. Murphy did make a law. I know there are third-party holsters out there, but if the exoskeleton holster is sturdy and secure I don't want to take my chances and spend my money on something I don't need.

And thanks for all your help on this, Fletch.

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#110641 - 04/16/05 08:26 PM Re: Any comments on the X26?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by ziggytkd:
By the way, did you have to be tased to carry? I did but personally i think it was ridculous to do so. After all they didn't shoot me with a gun, before they let me carry it. what do yall think?[/QUOTE]

Well, your firearm isn't an intermediate weapon so you'll use it far less than you'd use your intermediate weapons because situations that warrant their use are lower on the force continuum.

That being said; some situations may warrant the use of intermediate weapons, but intermediate weapons may not be the best alternative for those situations. You want to disarm the situation with minimal harm to yourself and others, the suspect(s) included. Had you not been exposed to whatever it is that you're using, you may use it far too frequently or may not be aware what it's capable of. Can you imagine someone that wasn't aware of what his OC felt like and suddenly got a face full of it in a hostile situation?

Being exposed to the effects of your tools gives you a respect for what they're capable of and also prepares you for what may happen if they're used against you.

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#110642 - 04/16/05 08:51 PM Re: Any comments on the X26?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I see your point about knowing how it feels, however, you don't have to be sprayed with oc to be certified. But that is beside the fact, with OC it is important know that even if you get sprayed, you can still function, but with getting tased, while you're getting tased, you can't function, so what's the point.

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#110643 - 04/16/05 11:02 PM Re: Any comments on the X26?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by ziggytkd:
I see your point about knowing how it feels, however, you don't have to be sprayed with oc to be certified. [/QUOTE]

It depends on your departmental policies. My department did require me to be exposed to OC and perform some basic countermeasures (like the eye-pry teqnuique, drawing your weapon and following the subject, and blind handcuffing) before I was certified to carry it. It was the same with the X-26 taser, but you are right, I pretty much just flopped around for the duration of the shock cycle. But again, depending on your state and department, the regulations may differ.

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#110644 - 04/17/05 01:30 AM Re: Any comments on the X26?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I took a full blast of OC in training (in addition to catching a lot of it on the street from blowback and cross contamination from other officers' spray). It sucked but I am glad I did it. I know I can fight through it if I have to, just like the bad guys do. It also gives me credibility as a Use of Force instructor.

I took the five second ride when I went through the Taser Instructor class and I would strongly recommend anyone who carries it to at least take a one second shot. It is not mandatory for our guys to get shocked in training in order to carry the Taser but many do so willingly.

I have heard the gun analogy before and don't buy it. The Taser needs to be experienced, not just watched on a video. You need to know what it does and doesn't do, from both perspectives. Just my opinion.

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#110645 - 04/17/05 03:43 PM Re: Any comments on the X26?
Anonymous
Unregistered


You make some good points fletch, especially about being a use of force instructor.

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#110646 - 04/17/05 04:27 PM Re: Any comments on the X26?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Aout the Exoskeleton holster. It seems reasonably secure. If you don't like it, there are aftermarket holsters available if you googlesearch.

The question is: how will you carry it? Cross draw or support side draw? I carry support side but many of our officers carry cross draw so it is used with the gun hand.

[This message has been edited by Fletch1 (edited 04-17-2005).]

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#110647 - 04/17/05 06:57 PM Re: Any comments on the X26?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, if I carry it cross draw like I was planning, I'll have to move my extendable, which I really don't want to do. The thought of support side draw never really seemed to cross my mind, so what I'll do is put it on my duty belt in both locations and see which one feels the most natural.

If I was really paranoid, though, I'd see if I could find a three-point holster for it, but I don't think it will be that much of a problem.

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#110648 - 04/17/05 09:14 PM Re: Any comments on the X26?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I had a scenario not too long ago where I had a guy brandishing a knife. First I challenged with the firearm. He turned and ran back into his house. I chased after on foot, reholstering the firearm and drawing the Taser. Tried to Tase him in the back as he was running through the kitchen but as I fired, he ducked around a corner. The probes stuck in a couch. Turned off the Taser and dropped it, redrawing my firearm without stopping.

As bad as I felt about missing the perp, I felt better about the location of the Taser on my belt and using my off hand to deploy rather than using my gun hand for everything.

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#110649 - 04/18/05 10:10 PM Re: Any comments on the X26?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I just wanted to let you guys know that as civilian I find this thread most engaging. It also helps to place into the mind where I put things in my pockets in general life as viewed froma self-defense position...

-do I put my wallet in my back left or right pocket, do I want to draw it with my dominant or my support hand?

-do I carry my keys in my left hand or right hand? I always hold them to be used as a kubotan if needed, but do I want my dominant punching/manipulating hand free or holding it?

Hmm, I shall have to ponder.

A little off topic, but maybe others reading this will think about these as well.

Joel

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