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#110344 - 07/28/04 12:09 PM Re: Who is responsible for personal security?
judderman Offline

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
An interesting thread.

Who do I think is responsible for my personal safety? Me. It is possible to say that any law enforcement agency/force is also responsible, but often the two must work hand in hand. The police tend to be a reactionary force, in so much as they can only act on information recieved. I would think that it is unlikely that the police happen across many crimes. So their presence and work at catching criminals is fueled by the public, who in turn act responsibly to either prevent crime, often by avoiding it, or report it.

In the UK there is no duty to retreat. Certainly it might be deemed that this may be the best course of action, but then there are other situations that force may be used lawfully. The prevention of crime or the detention of someone unlawfully at large are also grounds for the use of force. I realise that US law has many differences to UK law, but in the example cited the homeowner would be within their right to protect their home, ie preventing a crime. How reasonable someones action is in a situation is always difficult, as hind sight is awful. The question of "what if...?" and statements of "but..." are terrible, thus you need to be very sure of why you are doing what you are doing.

#110345 - 07/29/04 09:24 AM Re: Who is responsible for personal security?

Several years ago in Texas there was a highly publicized crime. A young woman had an Ex-boyfriend that kept threatening to kill her. She called the police and told them what was going on. The police told ther that if he showed up at her house then then she should call back and they would come out.

The young woman got a restraining order on the EX and she called the police every time he called and threatened her. Each time the reply was for her to call them again if he ever showed up. Then one day he called and told her that he was on his way over to her place to kill her. She again called the police and told them what he said. And once again the police told her that if he really arrived to call back.

So the guys shows and up and kills her.

Now I don't blame the police. If they had to go and deal with every threat that scorned boyfriends made that would be all they had time for. This is merely an exapmle of someone who DEPENDED on the police for thier personal protection.

She was right to keep them infomred of the threats. They had no trouble finding the guy and arresting him and the was convicted. But other than making those calls she appeared to do little in the way of taking responsibility for herself. At the very least she should have left her place and gone somewhere else for a few days, but she didn't even do that.

It's a sad comentary on how some people have bought into certain arguments. Without trying to turn this into a discussion of gun rights, I have to say that one of the anti-gunner bread and butter arguments has always been that you don't need a firearm because the police will protect you.

That just is not so. You are responsible for your own protection and as an adult individual you should take that responsibility seriously.

I beleive that more and more people are however and that is a major factor in the continued decreases in crime rates in most areas. I at least hope that's the case.

#110346 - 08/02/04 12:50 AM Re: Who is responsible for personal security?

Each of us is responsible for our own personal security, whether or not the LAW favors it.

The Government (Law Enforcement) is only going to be there to "pick-up the pieces" and "soak-up the blood" to "process" the crime scene, AFTER the "event".

The sooner everyone understands this concept, the better. Anyone in denial is a casualty waiting to happen, like a sheep waiting to be slaughtered.

In these times of fanatical terror and crime waged against us, the sooner we understand what are our responsibilities, the quicker we will act in our personal preservation. We have a moral obligation to protect our loved ones and ourselves.

Law enforcement may take five to over ten minutes to arrive after a "911" call. That is a fact. You are on your own until the "cavalry" arrive. You better have a plan. Think creatively.

On that pleasant note.....


[This message has been edited by Karl in Phoenix (edited 08-02-2004).]

#110347 - 08/05/04 12:43 PM Re: Who is responsible for personal security?

Interesting topic guys.

Police are there to serve and protect your "constitutional rights", not you as an individual. We protect society and not individuals. I cringe when fellow officers tell people "well if they come back gives us a call back out". No, if he comes back to hurt you, stomp his ass, make sure your actions and story are tight and legal, and live to tell it.

Unfortunately, too many police officers today are college grads paid for by mom and dad, that grew up in middle class neighborhoods (pussies). They don't understand the etiquette of the street and how other people live and die. They don't understand survival. That is why they say call us back. They don't understand, that person may not get the chance to call them back. And some are even so lazy, they will arest both people and let the courts settle it when someone does protect themselves.

My advice: be able to articulate what you did, why you did it, and base it on conservative self defense doctrine and the dynamic application of skills, and collect third party winesses to the whole situation or even just parts of it. But never think that poilce will, can, or even want to protect you. You have a duty to protect yourself, and any good police officers will be glad you did.

#110348 - 08/06/04 11:53 AM Re: Who is responsible for personal security?

Great post Dailey. I appreciate your attitude. I've seen a great deal of mixed responses from LEO's on the subject. They are often in a difficult situation trying to figure out who did what and I firmly believe that your attitude and how well you can communicate with them can make a huge difference.

I'm assuming you are in law enforcement?

The attitude seems to vary with the geogrophy. In my native home of Texas most police officers expected you to take some responsibity for yourself and the same goes for where I now live in South Dakota. However when I lifed for a while in the norht east they seemed to have a very different attitude.

But all in all, YOUR attitude when dealing with police can be the differnece between sleeping in your own bed and spending the night in jail.

#110349 - 08/06/04 04:42 PM Re: Who is responsible for personal security?
the504mikey Offline

Registered: 06/19/03
Posts: 790
Loc: Louisiana, United States
My advice: be able to articulate what you did, why you did it, and base it on conservative self defense doctrine and the dynamic application of skills, and collect third party winesses to the whole situation or even just parts of it.

...but only articulate these things to your lawyer. You never know for sure how individual officers and/or the district attorney in your area feel about self defense issues. I really think that if something happens, you should not offer any information at all. Officers who understand the court system is not always our friend will know that your silence does not imply you feel that you are in the wrong, and in any case they are already obligated to do an investigation no matter how reasonable your story is. Sometimes what we say can complicate matters even when officers are on your side. I have a homicide detective friend who has told me of nights when he wished someone would just stop talking before they dig a hole he can't get them out of.

The rest of your post was spot on! (IMHO)


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