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#110293 - 06/12/05 12:05 AM Re: Aikido and Law Enforcement [Re: dj1023]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Forget technique, my aikido teacher always says. Aikido is a principle-based art. There is nothing wrong in using the principles (using the technical forms as a basis for exploration) and coming up with something more suitably effective in an arrest situation.

The Tokyo Police started out doing Yoshinkan Aikido, but abandoned it later, taking the principles of what they had learnt and created their own set of techniques and called it "aiki taiho jutsu" (I think!).

(Traditional Nihon) Jujitsu is also a good technical base to start from, as most of the JJ techniques are designed for that particular purpose, joint lock controls, nerve points, and pain compliance.

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#110294 - 06/12/05 04:41 AM Re: Aikido and Law Enforcement [Re: eyrie]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
Quote:



(Traditional Nihon) Jujitsu is also a good technical base to start from, as most of the JJ techniques are designed for that particular purpose, joint lock controls, nerve points, and pain compliance.




The key verbage is "to start from". For basic recruit training at the academy level, this is a nuts and bolts process of showing how the body works and doesn't work within the confines of static training and cooperative to moderately non compliant subject scenarios.

There are few if any martial arts that comprehensively address LE and CO tactics.
_________________________
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#110295 - 06/12/05 07:29 AM Re: Aikido and Law Enforcement [Re: eyrie]
devinw Offline
Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 66
Loc: Utah
I would just add a quick note to Fletch1's great comments .

The Tokyo police and other LE Units in Japan developed and use systems in about 1947 and has evolved with the times into the "police way" or "Keisatsujutsu" and their "arresting way" or "Taiho jutsu"

There are weapons/tool arts included, such as Keibo Soho (police methods with a police stick ), Tokushu Keibo Soho (police methods with the collapsible baton, e.g. Asp), Hojo-Jutsu (police methods of mechanical restraint with rope, handcuffs, etc.) Keijo-Jutsu (police application of jojutsu, combat with a stick), and Hojutsu (firearms training).

In my humble opinion, it seems like Japan is heading towards LE Defensive Tactics System and away from the Martial Arts directiction.

Resourses and Intresting reading

Self-Defense Forums: For A Fighting Chance > Police Defensive Tactics Post by Jeff Cook Dec 2001

An Introduction to Police Defensive Tactics by By Bernie Lau



Humbly,

Devin Willis

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#110296 - 06/24/05 10:07 PM Re: Aikido and Law Enforcement [Re: devinw]
mateo Offline
Member

Registered: 06/09/04
Posts: 63
Loc: Toronto
I wish the hair dos in the Lau video were the same today as they provide very convenient handles for him in his "Police Weaponless Defense" video. The attacking time and knife attacks are appropriately sobering on that video.

Robert Koga, LAPD Defensive Tactics trainer, released a video series called "Practical Aikido" which I found even more interesting in showing how an aikidoka approaches law enforcement duties. Interesting were the changes he made to the system to adapt it to police work. I found Volumes 5 and 3 particularly good.
_________________________
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#110297 - 07/24/05 05:58 AM Re: Aikido and Law Enforcement [Re: mateo]
samurai117 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 43
Japanese police forces still train in Yoshinkan Aikido. It is requeset training for the elite Tokyo Metro Riot Police, and every female officer. Yes learining a martial art is hard and takes years, so does shooting a gun or pursuit driving, many of the skills that are required to be a police officer. Aikido is very well suited for law enforcement. Primary premis - control the attacker without causing undue harm. Hard to do with kicks and punches. For more information check out www.keishoukan.com

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#110298 - 07/24/05 09:40 AM Re: Aikido and Law Enforcement [Re: dj1023]
Intrepidinv1 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/05
Posts: 308
Loc: NC, USA
This is an interesting topic area.

Aikido used to form the core of North Carolina's basic law enforcement defensive tactics curriculum. There were numerous defenses based largely, if not entirely, on Aikido. However, we now have a more well rounded defensive tactics program (which I am certified instructor in.) The program utilized more strikes, kicks, some basic bjj type stuff, etc. One of it's weaknesses (in my opinion) is that there is not much emphasis on takedowns. There are only two taught; an armbar type take down (which is highly effective) and a two officer takedown called the "high/low takedown" which I think creates a pretty high propensity for injury to the officers.

As far as my practical experience the Aikido type wrist locks and arm bars can be highly beneficial to the officer in escort, handcuffing type situations. I'm not to sure about there effectiveness against aggressive punching or grappling type situations. As far as Aikido and law enforcement application I guess I'd have to say that the jury is still out on it.

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#110299 - 07/28/05 12:29 AM Re: Aikido and Law Enforcement [Re: Intrepidinv1]
samurai117 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 43
I also think something which missing from a lot of dojo's is resistive partners. I feel this is needed after a certain level (so you don't kill each other) You need to train resistivly. I am fortunate to train with guys who have strong wrestling and Judo backgrounds. So after doing the basic technique for several reps I'll say resist if you can fall if you can't. We will do the technique most times it works, if it dosen't work I'll use their resistance against them and transition into another technique.

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#110300 - 07/28/05 01:03 AM Re: Aikido and Law Enforcement [Re: samurai117]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
The time it takes to get to that level is one of the major problems associated with Aikido training for Law Enforcement.

I cannot speak for the Tokyo Police, but the general consensus of Aikido based LE programs is that their focus is on appealing to administrators over line personnel. The question shifts from "does it work?" and "can the average officer make it work?", to "how does it look?".


Edited by Fletch1 (07/28/05 01:04 AM)
_________________________
www.brazilianjiujitsunaples.com

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#110301 - 07/28/05 11:36 AM Re: Aikido and Law Enforcement [Re: samurai117]
Intrepidinv1 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/05
Posts: 308
Loc: NC, USA
Samarai,

I like your approach to this. If you have a chance go back and read the comments I made today under the Aikido, multiple opponents thread. I am intriqued by Aikido, it challenges me mentally but I have to practice the way you mentioned in order to feel confident about it. I would like this type of training that you guys are doing.

One of my Sensei's in the Aikido class I was attending told me point blank, "if you want a more combat oriented Aikido then you should probably look for another class." They simply don't seem to care that what they're practicing is not combat effective, that is evidentally not why they are there. More power to them but I don't understand why anyone would practice something that they cannot use to defend themselves with. I like the comaraderie and the fitness aspect buy why practice something that is supposed to be a defense against a certain type of attack if you know it won't work for real?

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#110302 - 07/28/05 11:40 AM Re: Aikido and Law Enforcement [Re: samurai117]
Intrepidinv1 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/05
Posts: 308
Loc: NC, USA
if it dosen't work I'll use their resistance against them and transition into another technique.




This is what I consider to be the real concept of Aikido, the ability to be able to rapidly switch from one technique to another and take the opponents balance. If a person trains in the manner you mentioned and highly refines his/her ability to take the other person's balance as soon as the opening is created, that's what I consider advanced Aikido.

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