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#110255 - 06/09/04 02:27 AM Handcuffing Methods
leescott50 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 06/09/04
Posts: 2
Loc: Saint Charles, Missouri, Unite...
For those on this board who are police
officers, what are some methods you use
for handcuffing/restraining subjects?

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#110256 - 06/17/04 09:52 PM Re: Handcuffing Methods
Anonymous
Unregistered


yo, man.i dont think anyone here are police officers

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#110257 - 06/21/04 05:42 PM Re: Handcuffing Methods
Anonymous
Unregistered


Not sure what you mean.

What position do I prefer as in hands on head, hands out or hands in back? Strong hand vs reactionary (weak) hand? Standing, kneeling or prone?

I prefer hands in back but occasionally use hands on head. I also prefer using my strong hand.

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#110258 - 06/22/04 10:56 PM Re: Handcuffing Methods
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm not a police officer but have had many seek advice in the dojo for perfecting the handcuffing technique. Certainly it depends on the situaions. Officers will usually ask why a person was able to get out of or move more freely than they wanted them. Look at perfecting the use of restaints with Nikyo, Ikkyo, and Sankyo in combination with the use of pressure points on the arms, neck, etc. Keeping the wrist and the arm in "proper alignment" is essential. A good knee to the pressure point on side of the leg or kick to the groin area will also help the techniques. Much more could be said about he use of these techniques.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by leescott50:
For those on this board who are police
officers, what are some methods you use
for handcuffing/restraining subjects?
[/QUOTE]

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#110259 - 07/01/04 05:09 PM Re: Handcuffing Methods
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm no cop but I guess you're not either. Which leads to my question...why you want to know? If you gonna cuff some dude you don't need the kind of restraint that cops use, crack his head and then cuff him. If you cuff a lady, maybe she's gonna let you. ;->

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#110260 - 07/01/04 06:28 PM Re: Handcuffing Methods
nekogami13 V2.0 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 2643
Loc: Texas, USA
I am not a police officer, but I have had occasion to cuff someone who did not want to be. I work Retail Loss Prevention, so it wasn't anything kinky(for the most part [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG] )

I prefer them prone, my knee on their jaw line with their hand on the side I am kneeling on up behind their back "chicken winged"(sorry, do not know the jujitsu term for this).

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#110261 - 07/01/04 09:10 PM Re: Handcuffing Methods
Anonymous
Unregistered


Interesting. If you are not a LEO and you are attempting to handcuff someone as part of your Security duties, then you need to think about your Use of Force restrictions.

Retail merchants are notorious for throwing you a set of handcuffs and you are your own on learning how and when to use them. You are limited by law on how much force you can use to protect someone's property.

"I prefer them prone, my knee on their jaw line" is going to jam you up sooner or later. If you are going to be a professional...learn specific Arrest and Control tactics designed to help you in court as well as the street.

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#110262 - 07/01/04 09:21 PM Re: Handcuffing Methods
nekogami13 V2.0 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 2643
Loc: Texas, USA
Police officers I have worked with showed that to me.
I am allowed to use the force necessary to ensure my safety, the safety of the subject. I am familiar with the State laws regarding use of force. Cuffs are only ever used when the subject attempts to flee or fights,which is around 1% of all shoplifters. After 12 years of experience in apprehending and detaining shoplifters, over 700 aprehensions, 12 years of never losing a case in court-I assure you I know what I am doing. Calling my professionalism into question is rather childish.

Most aikido techniques using wristlocks do not work. I have found better success with arm bars/locking out the elbow with the subject prone.
Placing my knee on their jawline secures their head-keeping them from moving without causing physical damage. I do not see what the problem is?


[This message has been edited by nekogami13 V2.0 (edited 07-01-2004).]

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#110263 - 07/02/04 10:10 AM Re: Handcuffing Methods
Anonymous
Unregistered


After 12 years of experience in apprehending and detaining shoplifters, over 700 aprehensions, 12 years of never losing a case in court-I assure you I know what I am doing.

Excellent work. Continued success to you. My interest is in promoting a constructive coversation and exchange of ideas. Unfortunately, there are many people on these boards who spout questionable tactics to people who are looking to enhance their personal safety. That bothers me.

Calling my professionalism into question is rather childish.

That was not my intention and I apologize if it sounded that way. My point is that if you are going to use control tactics in your job, then it is only reasonable that you should seek out qualified instruction that deals not only with the mechanics of such holds, but the issues of liability as well. You did not mention where you received this training in your first post.

Police officers I have worked with showed that to me.

Now we are getting somewhere. Were these police officers qualified Use of Force instructors? Don't laugh at the question. The reson I ask is that the practice of kneeling on the jawline (head/ neck area) has been dropped in favor of directing the knee pressure away from that area and onto the upper back or between the shoulder blades...all due to liability issues resulting from real or false injuries claimed by suspects. This is the same general reason given for removing the pressure point at the hinge of the jaw (TMJ) from LEO academy curriculums.

Most aikido techniques using wristlocks do not work. I have found better success with arm bars/locking out the elbow with the subject prone.

I certainly agree with you there. Large or weigh bearing joints like the elbow, shoulder, hip and knee should be the priority.

Best wishes for your continued safety and success.

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#110264 - 07/02/04 04:00 PM Re: Handcuffing Methods
nekogami13 V2.0 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 2643
Loc: Texas, USA
I have no idea if the officers I worked with were certified anything. They showed me a tactic, it worked-I used it. Also consider this was roughly 16 years ago.

Not being exposed to the same thing LEO's are, I am not aware of legal issues regarding that tactic or the use of the pressure point at the hinge of the jaw(which is one of my favorites).

I have a background in MA's, that includes elements of aikido, jujitsu and exposure to BJJ. Most of the training I have is geared towards breaking/damaging the joints-not on compliance without imjury. I do not have training geared towards law enforcement use.

At least I didn't recommend the good ol' ground and pound or a neck crank! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

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#110265 - 07/02/04 04:56 PM Re: Handcuffing Methods
Anonymous
Unregistered


Not being exposed to the same thing LEO's are, I am not aware of legal issues regarding that tactic or the use of the pressure point at the hinge of the jaw(which is one of my favorites).

Check it out then. Certainly don't take my word for it. It couldn't hurt.

I have a background in MA's, that includes elements of aikido, jujitsu and exposure to BJJ. Most of the training I have is geared towards breaking/damaging the joints-not on compliance without imjury

Although I am sceptical of Aikido in LEO tactics, Jujitsu and BJJ have a lot to offer in terms of tactis proven recently in all out brawls. If you have game in these styles, it will not be a hard stretch to incorporate legally defensible police tactics. Great to see security professionals who take their job seriously enough to train.

Have a great and safe holiday and weekend.

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#110266 - 10/29/04 09:50 PM Re: Handcuffing Methods
Anonymous
Unregistered


nekogami13 V2.0..

Handcuffing a fleeing suspect. Iím a former police officer. I have only been off the force for two years and I work as a bodyguard now for high government officials. If a suspect it trying to flee the scene the state law of Nevada states that if a suspect is running and you try to apprehend him, you a causing the threat of a major fight and or putting the public in harms way and up to someone being killed. I know I live in Nevada and your state law is most likely different but when handcuffing a person you must know the levels of force and how to imply them. Nevadaís levels are these:

1. Command Presence
2. Verbal Communication
3. Escorting a suspect
4. Physical control
5. O.C. / Pepper Spray
6. ASP / PR- 24 batons
7. Deadly force

I instruct handcuffing classes for some casino security personal for extra cash. But hey every state is different and well I hope you stay safe.

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#110267 - 11/02/04 09:20 PM Re: Handcuffing Methods
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Everyone. I am George Vranos, the creator of the new Police Defensive Tactics video "Fast Action Control Techniques. We at http://www.factvideos.com believe we have one of the most realistic methods of handcuffing the highly combative. This video is one of the only videos I know that does not demonstrate theory. All 13 techniques in the video represent the F.A.C.T. system as used in the street everyday by police around the world. Check it out. Thanks ..George

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#110268 - 11/03/04 08:24 PM Re: Handcuffing Methods
Anonymous
Unregistered


Interesting.

Is this a program to "supe" up wristlocks?

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#110269 - 11/04/04 09:51 PM Re: Handcuffing Methods
Anonymous
Unregistered


not a cop, but a doorman (a bit like gaffer really), I had a couple of guys cuffed by myself, both didn't pay the clerk at the necklace shop I was working for then they told me, watch out, we're wrestlers. I told them, I know taekwondo, I snapped my fingers and the whole doorman squad came to my side and the guys ran away, we chased them and I cuffed one quickly while one of my cos (co-workers) was holding his fist ready so he can punch anytime when the thief attacks. the other one was chased and beaten up the rest of the squad and they received a slap from the shop owners

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#110270 - 05/16/05 02:38 PM Re: Handcuffing Methods [Re: nekogami13 V2.0]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
It depends on the arrest in a mismenor/domestic/non felony if he coroperate the subject facing the wall legs spread and 1st arm in the middlle of his back, then the next arm.

In a combat situation after you stun them a Aikido or Jujitsu or Judo takedown, wrist lock/armbar combination that gives you one arm to cuff initially and with knee, elbow/wrist leverage he wants to give you his other arm most of the times, sometimes you got drag it around.
Practicing team work arrest techniques also help.

In a fenoly arrest I aways like using the felony prone, back turned, on their knees, hands on top of their head, one hand cuff into a (if i wanted to dump them face down) knee in back & arm brought around into an armbar, otherwise cuff the other hand one at a time. Lighted with back up prone arms spreaded out and legs spreaded. Verbal command one hand until both hands are in the center of his back cuff. Their was a method taught were you could hit both wrist at the same time and vuff him. The cuffs were held in your fist links facing his wrist. It worked for once other times it never worked right, beat his wrist lots yelling.

Always lock the cuffs, he's your responcibility onced cuff. I've seen some rookie Security officers, clap up a suspect wrist by not locking the cuff so they don't tighten up. When they transferring custody.
_________________________
DBAckerson

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#110271 - 06/19/05 01:00 PM Re: Handcuffing Methods [Re: Neko456]
Dingo Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/19/05
Posts: 9
I generally use the PPCT method of handcuffing if I'm thinking they are going to fight, or they have fought and I've got them on the ground.

If they are being cooperative and I don't think they are going to fight, I just have them put their hands behind their back and cuff them. I don't do this very often because it can be dangerous.

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#110272 - 08/29/05 02:55 PM Re: Handcuffing Methods [Re: leescott50]
yourownsluth Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/29/05
Posts: 9
Remember that you are at a disadvantage when trying to take someone into custody. You cannot use all the tech. you have if you are following a force matrix. You must wait for them which gives them the upper hand. Better safe than sorry. ALWAYS immobilize them in some manner. It doesn't have to hurt them or be brutal, but make sure you are in contol. Don't let them see the cuffs. Many get nervous and you can provoke them by letting them see the cuffs. Always approach from their blind side if possible. If they are on thier knees, have them cross thier ankles and gently step on thier ankles while cuffing if you can. If they try to get up, step harder. And finally, try to keep the key hole up so you can unhook them or switch custody easily.

DON'T EVER PUT YOUR HANDS ON THE CHAIN. SOME EXPERIENCED HOODS CAN BREAK YOUR HANDS AND FINGERS.
Frank

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