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#110138 - 05/10/04 01:44 PM Re: MA best for Law Enforcement
SheepDog Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/03/04
Posts: 6
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doughnut:
Sheepdog,
Thankyou for you insight. I was in refering to the "semper fu" guy. I ment Richard Strozzi-Heckler. If intrested read the following.
Doughnut
Cardo Urso worked with Bristol, but since he was "enlisted" and not an "officer" I think he isn't mentioned as much (opinion from my mouth not Cardo's). If you Google "Cardo Urso" you will see.
Here is a little blurb from (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001-03-08-marines.htm)

"Many other Marines stationed on the Japanese island have studied Okinawa's ancient form of karate during their off-hours. Among those who have mastered Okinawan karate are Bristol and his chief trainer, Master Gunnery Sgt. Cardo Urso, who says he holds several black belts in various martial arts.

Bristol, Urso and a platoon of consultants have developed a system for the Marines that borrows from more than a dozen martial arts. They include karate, judo, jujitsu, aikido and arts that use swords, spears and other weapons".

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#110139 - 06/22/04 02:59 AM Re: MA best for Law Enforcement
reaperblack Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 558
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
ok, this was a lot of reading to get very little useful info, first let me say I am not a cop. I have been a bouncer, a wrestler, and a pro ma, but never a cop. I have done martial arts for most of my 28 years on earth. Aikido, jujitsu, tkd, hapkido, jeet kune do, jun fan, kali, karate, shoot fighting, greco roman, brazillian jujitsu, wing chun, tai chi, ninjitsu, and kung fu. I have done at least a little in all of these, some areas of more concentration than others, of course. What I have found is that there are martial arts that suit certain body types better than others, and there are better martial artists than others. Essentially the body mechanics that you will learn in most styles are the same. Aikido is not only done in complete cooperation, at least not where i did it, and it certainly isn't done slowly. Aikido teaches you how to redirect your opponent, some people can't do this, and so their techniques fail, and then they think that all circular or soft styles don't work.
Not so, some people don't train enough, some instructors teach too many variations. This is not the fault of the style. This is the fault of a person. I am not saying that aikido is perfect, no style is. But aikido is something which you should learn after you have done another martial art. When you understand how the human body works. The entries from aikido are hard to beat, if you know how to do them correctly, but too many people have sloppy form. If you can't destabilize your opponent you can't throw him, it doesn't matter what style you use. circular steps are the key to defence, if you can learn how to do these quickly you won't get hit. Above and beyond that, where the head goes the body must follow. There i just taught you how to throw anyone, that wasn't so hard was it, and you didn't need a partner, I don't care if he resists or not.

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#110140 - 06/22/04 03:01 AM Re: MA best for Law Enforcement
reaperblack Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 558
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
ok, this was a lot of reading to get very little useful info, first let me say I am not a cop. I have been a bouncer, a wrestler, and a pro ma, but never a cop. I have done martial arts for most of my 28 years on earth. Aikido, jujitsu, tkd, hapkido, jeet kune do, jun fan, kali, karate, shoot fighting, greco roman, brazillian jujitsu, wing chun, tai chi, ninjitsu, and kung fu. I have done at least a little in all of these, some areas of more concentration than others, of course. What I have found is that there are martial arts that suit certain body types better than others, and there are better martial artists than others. Essentially the body mechanics that you will learn in most styles are the same. Aikido is not only done in complete cooperation, at least not where i did it, and it certainly isn't done slowly. Aikido teaches you how to redirect your opponent, some people can't do this, and so their techniques fail, and then they think that all circular or soft styles don't work.
Not so, some people don't train enough, some instructors teach too many variations. This is not the fault of the style. This is the fault of a person. I am not saying that aikido is perfect, no style is. But aikido is something which you should learn after you have done another martial art. When you understand how the human body works. The entries from aikido are hard to beat, if you know how to do them correctly, but too many people have sloppy form. If you can't destabilize your opponent you can't throw him, it doesn't matter what style you use. circular steps are the key to defence, if you can learn how to do these quickly you won't get hit. Above and beyond that, where the head goes the body must follow. There i just taught you how to throw anyone, that wasn't so hard was it, and you didn't need a partner, I don't care if he resists or not.

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#110141 - 06/22/04 03:03 AM Re: MA best for Law Enforcement
reaperblack Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 558
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
ok, this was a lot of reading to get very little useful info, first let me say I am not a cop. I have been a bouncer, a wrestler, and a pro ma, but never a cop. I have done martial arts for most of my 28 years on earth. Aikido, jujitsu, tkd, hapkido, jeet kune do, jun fan, kali, karate, shoot fighting, greco roman, brazillian jujitsu, wing chun, tai chi, ninjitsu, and kung fu. I have done at least a little in all of these, some areas of more concentration than others, of course. What I have found is that there are martial arts that suit certain body types better than others, and there are better martial artists than others. Essentially the body mechanics that you will learn in most styles are the same. Aikido is not only done in complete cooperation, at least not where i did it, and it certainly isn't done slowly. Aikido teaches you how to redirect your opponent, some people can't do this, and so their techniques fail, and then they think that all circular or soft styles don't work.
Not so, some people don't train enough, some instructors teach too many variations. This is not the fault of the style. This is the fault of a person. I am not saying that aikido is perfect, no style is. But aikido is something which you should learn after you have done another martial art. When you understand how the human body works. The entries from aikido are hard to beat, if you know how to do them correctly, but too many people have sloppy form. If you can't destabilize your opponent you can't throw him, it doesn't matter what style you use. circular steps are the key to defence, if you can learn how to do these quickly you won't get hit. Above and beyond that, where the head goes the body must follow. There i just taught you how to throw anyone, that wasn't so hard was it, and you didn't need a partner, I don't care if he resists or not.

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#110142 - 06/22/04 09:13 AM Re: MA best for Law Enforcement
Anonymous
Unregistered


Not so, some people don't train enough, some instructors teach too many variations. This is not the fault of the style. This is the fault of a person. I am not saying that aikido is perfect, no style is. But aikido is something which you should learn after you have done another martial art.

And there you have one of the primary reasons that Aikido is not an effective program for Law Enforcement. Minimal available training time and low standards.

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#110143 - 06/22/04 02:13 PM Re: MA best for Law Enforcement
Anonymous
Unregistered


KarateKid and JKogas your are both confused. You are allowing you're love of a particular system close your mind. Karate, There are two forms of Ju Jitsu, Brazilian and Japanese. Brazilian is almost exclusivley ground while most of japanese is standing joint manipulations. JKogas Ikr is apparently close to krav Magra in the fact that it is a system that uses techniques from other systems that worked for the situations that the designer found himself in. no one system is better than another. warriors are what make the system work or fail. Don't be ridged in your thinking or your fighting. Read some of Bruce Lee's teachings to understand more of what I'm talking. Oh just incase your wondering my creds. I serve in the army, I have studied muay thai for almost 10 years, and hold a 1st dan in tae kwon do. I have also study other systems to observe their strengths and weakness's. Oh and all the Aikido bashing I saw in this forum, Aikido will work when an opponet wants to resist, to overcome this part of almost all the techniques in akido or any other style where the goal is to control your opponent's body is to throw them off balance. Thank you for your time.

Ronin

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#110144 - 06/22/04 04:19 PM Re: MA best for Law Enforcement
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
ronin801:

I do not "love" any particular system. I do not have a set "style" that is my favorite. I do not BELIEVE in "styles". I train only in arts that practice against live, resisting partners/opponents. That is a much the case now as it was way back when I originally responded to this thread.

I have trained in aikido and quite honestly, the way most schools train, is a joke. Sorry if you find that offensive. I see more offense in not speaking the truth.


-John

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#110145 - 06/22/04 10:13 PM Re: MA best for Law Enforcement
Anonymous
Unregistered


MA systems are generally inadequate and inappropriate for LE, period. Thus the "which MA is best for Law Enforcement?" question that keeps popping up is a pointless argument. The fact is that very few if any MAs are best for LE.

A specialized training program is needed for LE/ Corrections. Gross motor, trained with progressive resistance, in accordance with Rules of Engagement SOPs, reasonable and justifiable, etc. There are very few programs that meet all of these requirements.

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#110146 - 09/29/04 02:23 AM Re: MA best for Law Enforcement
Anonymous
Unregistered


ANY training with compliant partners is an excercise in dry-land swimming. Aikido is one such art.

Nuff said! Onto the next...

-John[/QUOTE]

i couldnt agree with you more john, strange coming from me....ive been training in aikido for the last 8 years, fortunatley ive had the privalege to be with a practical school of thought probably more in common with aikijutsu, tho i train bjj too. The amount of aikido seminars ive been to with "rainbow warriors" (someone elses phrase on here not mine, it just sums up my point perfectly:-) who fall at the slightest touch and expect you to run around after them while they do a so called technique.

Is it just in aikido circles that there seem to be so many clubs that dont teach the real martial aspects? The thing is, aikido is divided into several schools of thought, some focusing on sport, others philosophy and spiritualism.does this phenomenon occure in other martial arts?
There seem to be a lot of hippy new age aiki dojos around that think they can "harmonise" with the 6'5 18 stone rapist who wants to kill you.

i checked out the video clips you posted links to and i saw a few aikido techniques in there, theres an iriminage, kaitenage and what looks like a koshi nage! maybe youve had some bad experiences with some other dojos, but dont assume ALL aikido dojos train in a namby pamby way! regards, gareth

ps, there seems to be a little debate of the effectiveness of kotegaeshi underlying this topic, if the opponents popeye, for gods sake do something else lol.

pps great topic and interesting reading btw your training over at matrix looks great, do you guys do courses over here in england?!

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#110147 - 09/29/04 01:04 PM Re: MA best for Law Enforcement
Anonymous
Unregistered


You need to seek out "Copkido" (PDS) Progressive Defensive System - Shawn Marando of the Boston PD...

He has a complete system street provin and tested techniques that are legal to use on the street against assalants or resisting badguys.

His traditional Styles consist of American Traditional HapKiDo 5th Dan, KunTao, Silat & Kali,

He has this system purley for police, military, security bodygaurd personel here is his email if your interested, I know he host seminars and loves his martial arts and is very willing to work with anyone who is willing to learn. copkido@yahoo.com />
In any note he my masters first black belt in america for Hapkido. And he comes up to visit us usually once per year to kick our buts and pass his style and theories apon us. and Fishing.

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