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#110118 - 09/18/03 08:10 PM Re: MA best for Law Enforcement
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TruthHurts:
If your training does not resemble how people really resist and fight, and does not contain elements of aliveness and resistance, it will not be effective when you need it. [/QUOTE]

Exactly! It's what I've been preaching about since I've been on this forum.

[QUOTE]I have been fortunate enough to attend many LEO instructor courses, from Luis Gutierrez and Paul Sharp's ISR Matrix, Tony Blauer's SPEAR system, Royce Gracie's GRACIE system and my state's DT curriculum (largely Aikido based)among others. The systems with the most integrity were the ones that were pressure tested on a regular basis.
[/QUOTE]

Great work there! I am affiliated with the SBG and currently train the ISR Matrix. To me, it's the way to go.

-John

[This message has been edited by JKogas (edited 09-18-2003).]

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#110119 - 09/20/03 11:42 PM Re: MA best for Law Enforcement
Anonymous
Unregistered


didn't read all the posts,so forgive if this has already been stated.

Aikido, judo are modified jujistu.Aikido founder modified jujitsu to make it less harmful to an attacker for spiritual reasons.Judo was modified to make it easier to learn w/o getting hurt and to enable it to be a sport. So in essence both are jujitsu, focus of training is different.

A good jujitsu school will teach you standing and ground techniques.They also teach strikes(atemi), usualy as a prelude to a lock. Jujitsu goal(if taught as martial art,not sport) is to cripple or kill your attacker. In the begining the techniques are worked on cooperative partners for safety reasons, as you gain greater skill, more resistance is offered by partner.

So the question is not will aikido,judo,jujitsu work since they are all basicly the same techniques but does how you train enable you to make it work?

Ps. Bjj is not all ground fighting, majority of focus is but there are plenty of standing techniques.

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#110120 - 09/29/03 07:07 AM Re: MA best for Law Enforcement
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
Sorry, I couldn't be arsed to read all the posts. Lots of opinion but little substance if you ask me. For my part, I have trained in aikido for a number of years, I have had to use it more often than I would've like to (for work that is) and I have found it to work, consistantly. If it doesn't work because of the poor training methods it's news to me... And, come to think of it, most of the people I've used it on. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Budo

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#110121 - 10/21/03 09:48 PM Re: MA best for Law Enforcement
Yojimbo558 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/00
Posts: 253
Loc: Marina, Ca. USA
Hi there,

Well some of the references to Jujutsu were quite amusing. There are over 800 different styles of Jujutsu alone.

Jujutsu is a great style and would be one of the things that I would recommend to you for pursuing a Law Enforcement career.

Someone had indicated that Jujutsu consists soley of ground fighting...it sounds like they were busy looking only at the Gracie's who focus on that.

Jujutsu is great because it deals with utilizing techniques against a non-cooperative opponent.

Someone else had made the comment that Jujutsu is inneffective since they knew someone who tried to innitiate a wrist-lock & it didn't work. Sorry, but an improperly executed technique doesn't mean it doesn't work. When dealing with joint manipulations you have to apply distractions ( i.e. strikes ) so as to enable you to initiate a technique.

If I were to just grab your wrist and attempt to take you down with a wrist lock ( kote gaeshi )...most likely you would deck the hell out of me. So when you make your attack I deflect and strike you elsewhere in order to create the opening and time for me to do the take down.

I would not recommend Aikido, while it is a great system it is a cooperative art. You will see many similarities in techniques & if you do one Aikido you can enjoy Jujutsu seminars & vice-versa...but Aikido is putting you up against people who both do not want to go to jail & if their dealing with something that could be facing a life sentence will be anything but co-operative.

I know a husband wife team from San Jose who're both police officers. One was a 5th Dan in Kenpo Karate & the other was a long time practioner of Wing Chung. They began studying Jujutsu after the Rodney King affair. Their reasoning was that they wanted to maintain their effectiveness & officer safety, while moving to a style that would give less of a show to the cameras.

Both of them have shared many harrowing stories regarding incidents where their jujutsu was responsible for their still being around and breathing.

Someone early on mentioned Boxing & the only reason I'm referencing that is because a Boxer's training is very cardio intensive. My point being you're smart to want to study a martial art as it increases the odds of your surving and returning home to your family & your loved ones. This is an investment in yourself. Whatever art you choose...make sure you have the cardio to back yourself up. Your training is worthless if you can't last long enough to either effect an arrest or in a worst case scenario hold on until backup arrives.

Best of luck to you in your new profession.

Eric L. Bookin

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#110122 - 11/12/03 02:15 PM Re: MA best for Law Enforcement
Oldwolf Offline
Member

Registered: 08/27/01
Posts: 71
Loc: Scotland
I have had a gander at lots of styles etc. and have found that Aiki techniques are effective if combined with a striking art, yes I know but atemi waza is rarely taught in aikido or judo these days, and most of the jujitsu I've seen in the last thirty years has been watered down competition orientated crap.
It should be a rule of thumb, any martial art will work if applied correctly, it becomes more important to train correctly in what ever system you choose.

Just on a side note two of my strong, handsome sons fly away tonight to a conflict in a hot country, hot LZ, I have tried to prepare them as best as I can, predominantly striking arts, this is not an experiment that can afford to fail.
God help them

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#110123 - 11/12/03 02:16 PM Re: MA best for Law Enforcement
Oldwolf Offline
Member

Registered: 08/27/01
Posts: 71
Loc: Scotland
I have had a gander at lots of styles etc. and have found that Aiki techniques are effective if combined with a striking art, yes I know but atemi waza is rarely taught in aikido or judo these days, and most of the jujitsu I've seen in the last thirty years has been watered down competition orientated crap.
It should be a rule of thumb, any martial art will work if applied correctly, it becomes more important to train correctly in what ever system you choose.

Just on a side note two of my strong, handsome sons fly away tonight to a conflict in a hot country, hot LZ, I have tried to prepare them as best as I can, predominantly striking arts, this is not an experiment that can afford to fail.
God help them

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#110124 - 11/14/03 03:43 AM Re: MA best for Law Enforcement
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
No particular point to make, Old wolf, I just want to wish your sons good luck and a safe return.

Budo

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#110125 - 11/15/03 06:23 AM Re: MA best for Law Enforcement
Painbringer Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 18
Loc: Buffalo, Ny USA
I am a Correction Officer in a maximun security prison in Ny state. I have been studying Nihon Goshin Aikido for about 3 years and can tell you it is very effective. not many people know about Nihon Goshin Aikido, its basiclly are harder more combative style, we incorperate kicks and strikes, and we dont train under the premis of not hurting your attacker. check it out at Aikidoinc.com

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#110126 - 12/31/03 04:25 PM Re: MA best for Law Enforcement
John Sharpe Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 16
Loc: HERMOSILLO, SONORA, MEXICO
I HAVE BEEN A POLICE OFFICER FOR OVER 24 YEARS. I HAVE BEEN TRAINING IN BOTH AIKIDO AND JAPANESE JUJUTSU FOR OVER 45 YEARS. FROM MY EXPERIENCE THEY BOTH ARE PERFECT FOR ARRESTING TECHNIQUES. THEY BOTH WORK. REMEMBER, IT IS NOT THE ART, BUT THE PERSON WHO TRAINS IN IT AND USES IT.

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#110127 - 01/25/04 11:44 AM Re: MA best for Law Enforcement
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'd say Aikido. (I am not in law enforcement) You guys needs and art that doesn't over committ you to the attack. You don't want to be tied up in a battle with alot of pressure (and jeapordize your safety). Aikido gives you control of the individual fast, so you can make the arrest fast and be over with it while staying safe.

As for this pretend v.s. non-compliance training. Compliance can be a safe assumption in some cases because the pain and skeleton control resulting from the lock will force the opponent to comply in some ways.

[This message has been edited by Shotokan (edited 01-25-2004).]

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