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#110009 - 08/05/03 06:24 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
Right on, Mr. V.

The USA has a long history of enforcing immoral laws, then later collectively changing its mind and denouncing the old regime. Take slavery: at one time a person could be punished for giving shelter or food to a "fugitive slave."

I will continue to fight for the rights of martial artists to train in the privacy of their own homes with a weapon that has a proud history of resisting oppressive governments.

[This message has been edited by Sweeney (edited 08-05-2003).]

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#110010 - 08/08/03 04:46 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
As someone who is responsible for upholding the law, it is my view that people have to challenge it from time to time. Sometimes laws are necessary when they are made, but become outdated, sometimes laws are just plain wrong and sometimes laws are ridiculously stupid. It is still law in the UK for hackney carriage drivers to carry a bail of hay in their cab!!!Why? Because no-one ever bothered to challenge it.

Unless you accept completely that an elite few have the right to make all the laws for the rest of society, then challenging laws is a true and proper right in any democracy. It isn't ever so democratic if you are denied the opportunity to do so, is it?

Budo

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#110011 - 08/08/03 08:13 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
Thanks, Cato.

I do think that, in context, the New York laws making it a crime simply to possess nunchaku in your home are, as you put it, "ridiculously stupid." As I recently wrote in a post on another thread:
[QUOTE]Interestingly, although New York is pretty Draconian about weapons possession (even nunchaku in your home are strictly illegal, which is my pet peeve), it is (or so I'm told) one of the few states that has a statute expressly saying that you don't have a duty to retreat in your own home. And since you can keep a shotgun but not nunchaku next to your bed in this state, I assume that what all this means is that the legislature must have made a considered decision that it would be better to have burglars shot dead with 00 buck than temporarily incapacitated by a beating with a pair of wooden sticks...[/QUOTE]

From a martial artist's prespective, this is, or ought to be, ridiculous. We kill only when necessary, and if it possible to subdue an opponent with less than lethal force, that's what ought to be done (I admit I am strongly influenced by Ueshiba and Aikido). So, as I wrote in my federal complaint back in February:

[QUOTE]20. The nunchaku, unlike most other weapons, including firearms, knives, swords and all other penetrating weapons, is capable of being used in a restrained manner such that an opponent may be subdued without resorting to the use of deadly physical force.

21. The nunchaku, in comparison with most other arms, including firearms, is relatively safe and innocuous, such that a child or other person untrained in the weapon’s proper use would be unable to inflict serious injury upon him- or herself, either accidentally or intentionally.

22. Accordingly, nunchaku kept in the home, even if not secured in a locked compartment, are far less likely to be associated with serious injury or fatality than are most other weapons or even common household objects such as kitchen knives and scissors.[/QUOTE]


Full text at:
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~jmm257/nunchakucomp.html

Sweeney


[This message has been edited by Sweeney (edited 08-24-2003).]

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#110012 - 08/23/03 09:11 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
HeadlessHorseman Offline
Member

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 36
Loc: Sleepy Hollow, NY, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MrVigerous:
HeadlessHorseman - you seem to take the view that once an issue is legislated upon, we should all go:

"...well that's that then, I'd better just live with it or risk sanction"

Indeed you do have to live with it whilst the law is in force, however the point I made was that whilst one is under a duty to comply with a law, one is still able and entitled to try to have it changed or amended.

Regds
Mr V
[/QUOTE]

But challenging it as "unconstitutional" is a crock of ****, wouldn't you say? [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#110013 - 08/24/03 08:04 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
Better that we never had a Constitution, then?

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#110014 - 08/31/03 08:19 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
DragonFire1134 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1479
Loc: Theodore (mobile), Alabama
This post is a to little to late, but they may as well go ahead and lock my @$$ up in prison. Boy, if they searched my home...I'd never see the light of day aqain. I'm going to do my thing regardless of what the law says. I'm not hurting anybody when I train with classical/homemade weapons. The law is very VERY ignorant. I can probaly kill an intruder with a pen through his eyeball more quickly than with a nunchacku. They should be looking for real criminals and not the responsible martial artist!

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#110015 - 08/31/03 08:36 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
You've got that right, DragonFire!

A pen through the eye, a knife through the heart, a bullet through the brain: all far more lethal than the nunchaku, which is one of the few weapons that, in trained hands, can be used very effectively as a defensive weapon but in a manner that stops short of "deadly force." That's one of the things I like about nunchaku, but governments and legislatures rarely make such an analysis. In New York, nunchaku are illegal because back in the 1970s they started becoming popular with gangs, etc. In California and New York, people have been prosecuted in recent years simply for possessing nunchaku in their homes, but at least California makes an exception for possession on the premises of martial arts schools. New York makes no such exception, and thus is the MOST draconian state in the union regarding nunchaku laws.

As you may know, the nunchaku evolved into a martial arts weapon because the invading Satsuma "government" disarmed the people of Okinawa in the 1600s. The nunchaku thus has a long history of association with resistance to oppression by "authorities," continuing right up into 21st Century America...

Jim Maloney http://homepages.nyu.edu/~jmm257

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#110016 - 10/05/03 08:40 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DragonFire1134:
This post is a to little to late, but they may as well go ahead and lock my @$$ up in prison. Boy, if they searched my home...I'd never see the light of day aqain. I'm going to do my thing regardless of what the law says. I'm not hurting anybody when I train with classical/homemade weapons. The law is very VERY ignorant. I can probaly kill an intruder with a pen through his eyeball more quickly than with a nunchacku. They should be looking for real criminals and not the responsible martial artist![/QUOTE]

Check this out:
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~jmm257/spitzerprofile.html

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#110017 - 10/06/03 08:02 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
DragonFire1134 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1479
Loc: Theodore (mobile), Alabama
i'm preparing for my trip down town as we speak [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/cool.gif[/IMG]

maybe i should hide my homemade silencer, crack pipes and hit list though....hmmm....

no but seriously, that is crazy. Whats the world coming to? I live AL and so far i don't believe that we have such a law. I would investigate but *yawn* I need to practise swinging my nunchaku outside in my yard....

[This message has been edited by DragonFire1134 (edited 10-06-2003).]

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#110018 - 10/08/03 01:00 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
kman Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/03
Posts: 368
Loc: minnesota
Sweeny and Mr V. In regard to comments and questions regarding the 2nd amendment. Part of the issue is whether or not to regard it as an individual or a collective right. As of this year a federal appelate court has held it to be an individual right. Opponets have long held that it was a collective right and as such the orginized militia(national guard) had a right but not an individual. The constitution uses the phrase "the people" in many many places and in every instance except the 2nd amendment it has always been held to mean each and every individual. The notion of it being a collective right is a transparent red herring. One that doesnt pass the smell test by a wide margin. In the absence of a definitive ruling by the supreme court states and federal districts are free to interpet laws differntly. The supreme court has only heard a 2nd amendment case 3 times in the last 200 years. They avoid it like the plauge and give the lower courts the oppourtunity to do the right thing. Hence our hodgepodge of laws. Gun rights groups and anti's vie to frame the argument and get test cases in front of whichever judge they feel will give a favorable ruling and thus establish the much coveted precedent. In 1927 (I think) the supreme court held that weapons not suitible for military service in the militia were not protected by the 2nd amendment. The case involved a sawed off shotgun which was found to be a weapon of little military significance and hence not protected. It also gave a confusing ruling that stated that the states have SOME right to regulate arms but didnt stipulate which ones or how much. It's perfectly leagal to own a machinegun here as long as you pay the 200.00 tax. This is the colour under which some small jurisdictions ban handguns or "assault weapons" (misnomer).
Now you might be asking yourself why would the court use the standard of military arms for suitibilty? I hope your sitting down. We have the right to keep and bear arms so that we can overthrow our government should it become oppressive. This is well established in law and the writing of the framers of the constitution. So should we find ourselves in a guerilla war with ourselves, nunchuks probably wont be in the mix. Hence no 2nd amendment protection.
thank you for reading this. Karl NRA Life Member.

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