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#109989 - 07/18/03 02:28 PM Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
What is the sense out there? Should the mere possession of nunchaku, even in your own home for peaceful training purposes, be a crime? Should the state be able to lock you up for owning a pair of wooden sticks connected by a cord or chain, even if you never carry those sticks in public and never use them for illegal or improper purposes?

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#109990 - 07/18/03 04:59 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
judderman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
Check your local laws, either in the library or official office or even at the police station.

Budo.

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#109991 - 07/19/03 04:10 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
Thanks, judderman, good advice (although I'd be careful about essentially announcing to police that I did have nunchaku in my home, assuming I did, which I don't admit in this post, etc., etc.) Actually, my question was an opinion question. I just wanted a sense of how the martial-arts-friendly law enforcement community feels about it. I know all too well what the law is here in New York, having been prosecuted for simple possession of nunchaku in my home and borne the threat of a year's imprisonment for it for over two years before the charge was dismissed earlier this year. (The threat of being locked up at least gave me an incentive to train hard, though, so there's the silver lining.) I have since challenged the law in a constitutional case that is currently pending before a federal judge who spent time in combat in the Western Pacific...maybe even in Okinawa(!?)...

[This message has been edited by Sweeney (edited 07-02-2004).]

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#109992 - 07/23/03 10:51 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
honor_bound79 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/03
Posts: 40
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sweeney:
What is the sense out there? Should the mere possession of nunchaku, even in your own home for peaceful training purposes, be a crime? Should the state be able to lock you up for owning a pair of wooden sticks connected by a cord or chain, even if you never carry those sticks in public and never use them for illegal or improper purposes? [/QUOTE]

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#109993 - 07/23/03 11:19 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
honor_bound79 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/03
Posts: 40
why not have a pair nunchaku in your house, if the law permits you to keep a gun in your house for "protection" why shoundnt you be able to keep a pair of nunchaku in your home.
and by the way to make my point clear a gun is more dangerous then two sticks held together by a piece of string !!!

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#109994 - 07/25/03 03:22 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
HeadlessHorseman Offline
Member

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 36
Loc: Sleepy Hollow, NY, USA
You can't have nunchaku, even in your home, in New York, California and maybe a few other states in the US. It's the law! And in NY and CA you can do a year in prison for breaking that law, even if you say you were keeping the nunchaku in your home for "training purposes." The law was made by the People (a process called democracy). So no griping, OK? Law enforcement officers have a sworn duty to enforce the law, and you should be prepared to do hard time with the bad boys if you keep these dangerous weapons in your home for any reason. Don't like it? You have three options: hire a lobbyist, quit training with the 'chucks, or move!

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#109995 - 07/25/03 05:39 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by HeadlessHorseman:
...
The law was made by the People (a process called democracy).[/QUOTE]

Dear Headless:

In a constitutional democracy, the People aren't allowed to make laws that deprive small groups (i.e., minorities) of their rights. The majority of people don't know how to use nunchaku and are afraid of them. That doesn't mean they should be able to legislate away the rights of those in the minority who would keep nunchaku in their homes for peaceful uses.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by HeadlessHorseman:
...
Don't like it? You have three options: hire a lobbyist, quit training with the 'chucks, or move![/QUOTE]

Dear Headless:

There's a fourth: challenge these unfair laws in federal court! Go to:
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~jmm257/nunchakucomp.html


[This message has been edited by Sweeney (edited 07-25-2003).]

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#109996 - 07/29/03 09:00 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
I think the crux of this matter is not so much is it unlawfull to have MA weapons at home, as SHOULD it be unlawfull to do so.

This raises some important issues. How far does the state have the right to interefer in your personal life, particularly if you are of previous good character? Is it enough for the state to presume you can't be trusted to keep certain weapons and use them appropriately, or should there be some substance to that belief?

It is hard to see how possessing nunchuks is really that different from keeping a Jo staff at home, and if you have a broom you have a makeshift jo, so where does it end? I think it should be encumbent on the state to show why you can't keep nunchuks at home, but I also think the trade off should come if you were ever to use them to cause injury, and the sentence should reflect the degree of pre-meditation in keeping weapons in the first place.

I'd be interested to hear the outcome of you case.

Budo

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#109997 - 07/29/03 10:04 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
HeadlessHorseman Offline
Member

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 36
Loc: Sleepy Hollow, NY, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cato:
It is hard to see how possessing nunchuks is really that different from keeping a Jo staff at home, and if you have a broom you have a makeshift jo, so where does it end? I think it should be encumbent on the state to show why you can't keep nunchuks at home...[/QUOTE]

Cato, you're missing the point. The legislature decides, and has decided, "where it ends." In New York and California, the legislatures have determined that nunchaku are a dangerous weapon that simply shouldn't be possessed by anyone, even at home, because the risk of misuse outweights the social utility. People living in these states must give up their nunchaku or else they are criminals and can be locked up for a year with other criminals. End of discussion.

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#109998 - 07/29/03 10:15 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
the504mikey Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/19/03
Posts: 790
Loc: Louisiana, United States
In the US, I was under the impression that we already had determined where the line is.

We allow our citizens to keep firearms in their homes. I have trouble believing that nunchaku or any other martial arts weapon is inherently more dangerous than a rifle or pistol would be.

Therefore it seems clear that the local law conflicts with federal law, and as such I would expect the local law to be overturned. The foregoing assumes that you can get a judge to hear the case, which it sounds like you have. Although I am curious... if the district attorney in New York has decided not to prosecute you, then do you still have a grievance to file in federal court? It seems like a judge might just decide to send you home until such time as you are formally charged. The city could just maintain the status quo by dropping charges against the folks who are willing to fight, and keep the law as a tool to control those who don't have the resources to mount a challenge.

By the way, if it isn't obvious, I am not a lawyer, so please forgive any errors arising out of my ignorance-- please do correct them, though, so I can learn more about our system.

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#109999 - 07/29/03 12:48 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
Thanks for responding.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by the504mikey:
We allow our citizens to keep firearms in their homes. I have trouble believing that nunchaku or any other martial arts weapon is inherently more dangerous than a rifle or pistol would be. Therefore it seems clear that the local law conflicts with federal law, and as such I would expect the local law to be overturned.[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, federal law (i.e., the Second Amendment) hasn't yet been applied to limit the states' ability to regulate the possession of arms, whether firearms or not. In the State of NY it's still a crime just to possess a pistol in your own home, even if you acquired it legally before moving here, unless you get a NY pistol permit first, and these can and frequently are denied arbitrarily with no hope of the applicant getting review of the decision. (It is because of the Second Amendment basis for my challenge that I sought some funding from the NRA, but they turned me down, probably because my case involves nunchaku, not firearms.)
[QUOTE]I am curious... if the district attorney in New York has decided not to prosecute you, then do you still have a grievance to file in federal court? It seems like a judge might just decide to send you home until such time as you are formally charged... By the way, if it isn't obvious, I am not a lawyer, so please forgive any errors arising out of my ignorance-- please do correct them, though, so I can learn more about our system.[/QUOTE]

Well, Mr. 504, you may not be a lawyer, but you've asked an excellent law-student question, which relates to what is called "standing": whether a given person is affected directly enough by a law to challenge it. I have argued that, having been prosecuted once, I must now choose between giving up my nunchaku or risking being prosecuted again. I believe this will give me standing, but the Attorney General still may challenge it in a motion. We'll see what happens. The wheels of justice turn slowly. (Interestingly, if I had tried to bring my federal case while the state criminal charges were pending, the federal court would have abstained from review while the state criminal case was pending. So it would be unfair to deny me the opportunity to litigate it now, or you'd have a damned-if-you-do/damned-if-you-don't situation.)

I will try to address all queries posted on this forum.

Jim Maloney

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#110000 - 07/29/03 02:53 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
the504mikey Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/19/03
Posts: 790
Loc: Louisiana, United States
Mr. Maloney,

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions and for clarifying some misconceptions I had about 2nd Amendment rights. I can understand the federal court refusing to get involved while your case was still pending-- they should, I think, always give the lower court a chance to "do the right thing" without prompting from above.

As answers often do, yours led me to have some more questions [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG].

Can a municipality or other local/state government ban firearm possession outright without running afoul of the Constitution?

It seems to me that NY could argue that it is not illegal to own a gun in your home, it's just that you have to follow certain procedures in order to do so. It would be up to the courts to decide that the procedures were in effect a ban because of the way they are set up or implemented.

This brings me to my second question, is there provision for licensing your nunchaku, as there is presumably for other "deadly weapons", or are nunchaku singled out with their own statute?

I think it's ludicrous that they can attempt to outlaw what is essentially a glorified stick. But then I am generally in favor of an armed populace, which I understand not everyone thinks is such a great idea...

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#110001 - 07/29/03 03:42 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
Before addressing your questions, I'd like to post a poem that was written by a reporter friend of mine in Seattle within hours of my informing him about the case. It very cleverly addresses some of the best legal arguments:

[QUOTE]If nunchaku's illegal, pray,
Are bolas far behind?
For if your balls are joined by thong,
What would the courts then find?
Sticks and stones can break your bones
But they are not illegal...
Until they're joined by chains or cords;
A point you might inveigle(?)
If sticks are not cojoined as such,
Would nunchak'/single count as much?
So what's a nunchak' guy to do...
Make singles of his nunchaku?!
And if it please the court, pray tell,
Whose basket now has gone to Hell?
Before you ridicule this poem,
Consider what's inside your home
The knife you use to carve your meat
Is weaponry upon the street,
But what I have behind my door
Is mine to use there. Furthermore,
What danger do I pose to you
With my own set of nunchaku?
My martial arts are wholly mine
As much as marital arts are thine!
And what a man and woman do
Is far beyond the law's purview
If they are doing it at home --
I rest my case,
And end my poem!

--Anon.[/QUOTE]

As for your questions, yes, the present state of the law is that a complete ban by a state or municipality may survive a Second Amendment-based challenge because the Second Amendment is one of the few provisions of the Bill of Rights that has not yet been held to be applicable to the states ("incorporated," to use the legal jargon). Naturally, such a ban would virtually assure litigation that could change that and lead to a Supreme Court case that incorporates the Second Amendment. Also, many states have provisions in their own constitutions relating to the right to bear arms, so the question of the federal constitutional protection would not matter as much in many states.

As to your second question, the only provisions for licensing in NY, and probably most states, relate to firearms. Nunchaku, shuriken, etc., are all simply banned. The martial arts community, unlike the NRA, has very little political clout.

There's a thread in the "Street Fighting" section here entitled, "Nunchuka--Is there a defence?" that has some commentary about all of this, including some comments I've posted. Look especially for the post by "Presuppositionalist" providing a link to a website maintained by Stephen Halbrook, who is a leading Second Amendment lawyer.

Jim


[This message has been edited by Sweeney (edited 07-29-2003).]

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#110002 - 07/29/03 03:49 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
MrVigerous Offline
Former Administrator

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 2498
Loc: UK
As an English lawyer, its interesting to see a discussion on the prohibited nature of some articles in some states of the US. I have often considered the following dichotomy ironic. We here in the UK are entitled to possess such items as nunchucks, fighting knives, katana and so on, in our homes and even to transport them in public to places of training, pretty much with impunity unless we start waving them around in the highstreet. However, should we use any of these items in defence of our homes, property and person, the law looks VERY deeply into the legitimacy of our actions. In the US on the other hand, the law is far less concerned with would be burglers, muggers and the like being maimed or killed in the commission of their crimes BUT individual states like to arbitrate over what objects one can have in ones home to do the job. There are clearly faults in the British system which to my mind is too concerned with the rights of criminals. However I find the US system utterly incomprehensible on occassion, where one can legaly own an efficient modern killing device such as a semi-automatic pistol and ritously use it to defend your home BUT should you have a pair of sticks with a bit of rope holding them together in your garage you face incarceration.
HeadlessHorseman - though you are correct in your view that the decision of the legislature in a Democracy is binding on everyone regardless of the stupidity of a law, it is not obligatory to do nothing to amend or seek to amend the law in question. Laws are amended, repealed and simply forgotten about year on year.

Regds
Mr V

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#110003 - 07/29/03 05:43 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MrVigerous:
...I find the US system utterly incomprehensible on occasion...[/QUOTE]

So do I! And the more I learn about it in theory, the less comprehensible it seems in practice. I'm close to getting my second law degree (LL.M.), by which time I should be utterly confused!

There is a joke among American lawyers about the criminal justice system: sometimes it forgets its middle name!

Seriously, a big problem here is the fact that so many "possession" crimes exist. Although they are rarely prosecuted, they are effective tools for abuse by factions of government against "targeted" individuals. When my home was ransacked in 2000 without a warrant by the police who seized my nunchaku and many other items, including papers, I had another case against a multi-billion-dollar state university system that I believed was corrupt on its way to a federal appellate court. Was I "targeted?" Well, the whole story is a bit more complex than I could or would set forth here, but ... maybe.

As for English law, I'm sure you're aware that since England incorporated the European Convention on Human Rights into domestic law a few years ago, the power of English judges to strike down acts of Parliament has increased manifold, at least in theory. I sometimes wonder if the capacity of the judiciary to declare laws unconstitutional is a mixed blessing, in that it inevitably leads to more "pushing of the limits" by the legislature in enacting laws of questionable constitutionality. Maybe the French, with their pre-enactment review by the Conseil Constitutionel and their unwavering respect for the sanctity of "loi" once it has been enacted, have the best system of all. In any event, I must say that I am getting pretty fed up with the absolute uncertainty and variability of the application of the American Constitution in our courts. So England, France, and the rest of the EU nations are all looking pretty good to me right now. That having been said, I remain a patriot, and more than twenty years ago took an oath to defend the American Constitution "against all enemies, foreign and domestic."

Unfortunately, most of them are domestic.

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#110004 - 07/29/03 07:50 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
MrVigerous Offline
Former Administrator

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 2498
Loc: UK
I would suggest that the problem with the US model is that you simply have too many layers of legislature and judiciary. Legislature at many levels from local to state to federal pass contradictory laws and judicary at all levels is asked to interpret them based on various degrees of compatibility, forced or optional compliance and of course the Constitution. I find it bizzare that after so many years, the Constituition is not directly applicable to the individual states in its entirety. They have the capacity to ammend it with a large majority so why not become beholdent to it. One of the guiding principals of EU law is that it is "supreme" and overides conflicting laws of the member states. The principals of direct and indirect effect oblige states and individuals to comply with and to read their laws in line with EU law.
Frankly the most telling similarity between the EU model and the US federal model is that the constituent members all still want a certain amount of individual autonomy. This can be said to be reasonable in respect of ancient sovereign nation states such as the UK and France. It seems somewhat petulent for the relatively young US states that have never really been sovereign to demand similar status. It seems to me that it really is about time the US became one country and all complied with the same overiding federal law. Then again I never have understood the attraction of a federal system anyway.

Regds
Mr V

[This message has been edited by MrVigerous (edited 07-29-2003).]

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#110005 - 07/29/03 08:50 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
Mr. V:

Interestingly, the EU Treaties don't provide for supremacy of Union law over member state law, but the ECJ said it was logically necessary in a case called Costa v. ENEL, so it's been the (largely) accepted norm ever since. Yet in the US, where the Federal Constitution has an express Supremacy Clause, the Supreme Court early on (Barron v. Baltimore) said that the Bill of Rights did not apply to the states. So, gaining that application via the post-Civil-War 14th Amendment has been a tedious step-by-step process that notably has so far omitted the Second Amendment. Conclusion: Constitutions and treaties are just words and, as my grandma always told me, actions speak louder than words. As for the benefits of a federal as opposed to a unitary system, well, you could check out Justice Kennedy's concurring opinion in United States v. Lopez (1995) at:
http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/93-1260.ZO.html

Basically, what he says is that having two governments duke it out protects the rights of the citizen. There is some hope that this may be true, I suppose, but I think the Germany-EU "Solange" dialog is a better illustration of an application of that theory than anything that has happened in the US in recent years. Kennedy attributes the origin of federalism to the US, and he may be right, but I would say that DUAL SOVEREIGNTY goes back to Italy in the first millennium, where the papacy and the secular governments often fought it out, sometimes creating opportunities for clever Macchiavellian types to pit the one against the other and maybe even achieve a noble result from baser motives. So I call the technique of pitting one sovereign against the other "la via duesovranesca"...

Anyway, this is getting way too scholarly. My major in my LL.M. program is Federalism & Federal Systems (can't ya tell?), but the semester doesn't start for another month, so I'd better give my brain a rest and go work out with the 'chucks. Oops, can't do that, 'cause I don't have any in the house 'cause they're...

ILLEGAL!

Yours,

The Outlaw Laywer
James M. Maloney
aka Sweeney http://homepages.nyu.edu/~jmm257

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#110006 - 08/05/03 03:15 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
HeadlessHorseman Offline
Member

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 36
Loc: Sleepy Hollow, NY, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MrVigerous:
HeadlessHorseman - though you are correct in your view that the decision of the legislature in a Democracy is binding on everyone regardless of the stupidity of a law, it is not obligatory to do nothing to amend or seek to amend the law in question. Laws are amended, repealed and simply forgotten about year on year.[/QUOTE]

If you read paragarphs 5 thru 8 of the complaint provided by "Sweeney" himself(http://homepages.nyu.edu/~jmm257/nunchakucomp.html ) in one of his other posts, you will see that the law was not "simply forgotten about" and that "Sweeney" himself was charged with violating it! Apparently the system showed him some mercy, but if he is foolish enough to acquire another nunchaku he should no doubt be convicted and incarcerated like any other criminal.

[This message has been edited by HeadlessHorseman (edited 08-05-2003).]

[This message has been edited by HeadlessHorseman (edited 08-05-2003).]

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#110007 - 08/05/03 04:15 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
I think Mr. V was pointing out that I have the right to challenge the law. And (hypothetically speaking, of course) if I were to continue to work out with nunchaku in my home in the meantime, that would be a case of civil disobedience, wouldn't it? It still strikes me as ironic that in the "land of the free" someone can be locked up for a year just for possessing two sticks joined by a cord in the privacy of his own home.

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#110008 - 08/05/03 04:32 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
MrVigerous Offline
Former Administrator

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 2498
Loc: UK
Sweeney is correct in his interpretation of the point I was trying to make. HeadlessHorseman - you seem to take the view that once an issue is legislated upon, we should all go:

"...well that's that then, I'd better just live with it or risk sanction"

Indeed you do have to live with it whilst the law is in force, however the point I made was that whilst one is under a duty to comply with a law, one is still able and entitled to try to have it changed or amended.

Regds
Mr V

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#110009 - 08/05/03 06:24 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
Right on, Mr. V.

The USA has a long history of enforcing immoral laws, then later collectively changing its mind and denouncing the old regime. Take slavery: at one time a person could be punished for giving shelter or food to a "fugitive slave."

I will continue to fight for the rights of martial artists to train in the privacy of their own homes with a weapon that has a proud history of resisting oppressive governments.

[This message has been edited by Sweeney (edited 08-05-2003).]

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#110010 - 08/08/03 04:46 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
As someone who is responsible for upholding the law, it is my view that people have to challenge it from time to time. Sometimes laws are necessary when they are made, but become outdated, sometimes laws are just plain wrong and sometimes laws are ridiculously stupid. It is still law in the UK for hackney carriage drivers to carry a bail of hay in their cab!!!Why? Because no-one ever bothered to challenge it.

Unless you accept completely that an elite few have the right to make all the laws for the rest of society, then challenging laws is a true and proper right in any democracy. It isn't ever so democratic if you are denied the opportunity to do so, is it?

Budo

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#110011 - 08/08/03 08:13 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
Thanks, Cato.

I do think that, in context, the New York laws making it a crime simply to possess nunchaku in your home are, as you put it, "ridiculously stupid." As I recently wrote in a post on another thread:
[QUOTE]Interestingly, although New York is pretty Draconian about weapons possession (even nunchaku in your home are strictly illegal, which is my pet peeve), it is (or so I'm told) one of the few states that has a statute expressly saying that you don't have a duty to retreat in your own home. And since you can keep a shotgun but not nunchaku next to your bed in this state, I assume that what all this means is that the legislature must have made a considered decision that it would be better to have burglars shot dead with 00 buck than temporarily incapacitated by a beating with a pair of wooden sticks...[/QUOTE]

From a martial artist's prespective, this is, or ought to be, ridiculous. We kill only when necessary, and if it possible to subdue an opponent with less than lethal force, that's what ought to be done (I admit I am strongly influenced by Ueshiba and Aikido). So, as I wrote in my federal complaint back in February:

[QUOTE]20. The nunchaku, unlike most other weapons, including firearms, knives, swords and all other penetrating weapons, is capable of being used in a restrained manner such that an opponent may be subdued without resorting to the use of deadly physical force.

21. The nunchaku, in comparison with most other arms, including firearms, is relatively safe and innocuous, such that a child or other person untrained in the weapon’s proper use would be unable to inflict serious injury upon him- or herself, either accidentally or intentionally.

22. Accordingly, nunchaku kept in the home, even if not secured in a locked compartment, are far less likely to be associated with serious injury or fatality than are most other weapons or even common household objects such as kitchen knives and scissors.[/QUOTE]


Full text at:
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~jmm257/nunchakucomp.html

Sweeney


[This message has been edited by Sweeney (edited 08-24-2003).]

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#110012 - 08/23/03 09:11 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
HeadlessHorseman Offline
Member

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 36
Loc: Sleepy Hollow, NY, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MrVigerous:
HeadlessHorseman - you seem to take the view that once an issue is legislated upon, we should all go:

"...well that's that then, I'd better just live with it or risk sanction"

Indeed you do have to live with it whilst the law is in force, however the point I made was that whilst one is under a duty to comply with a law, one is still able and entitled to try to have it changed or amended.

Regds
Mr V
[/QUOTE]

But challenging it as "unconstitutional" is a crock of ****, wouldn't you say? [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#110013 - 08/24/03 08:04 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
Better that we never had a Constitution, then?

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#110014 - 08/31/03 08:19 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
DragonFire1134 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1479
Loc: Theodore (mobile), Alabama
This post is a to little to late, but they may as well go ahead and lock my @$$ up in prison. Boy, if they searched my home...I'd never see the light of day aqain. I'm going to do my thing regardless of what the law says. I'm not hurting anybody when I train with classical/homemade weapons. The law is very VERY ignorant. I can probaly kill an intruder with a pen through his eyeball more quickly than with a nunchacku. They should be looking for real criminals and not the responsible martial artist!

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#110015 - 08/31/03 08:36 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
You've got that right, DragonFire!

A pen through the eye, a knife through the heart, a bullet through the brain: all far more lethal than the nunchaku, which is one of the few weapons that, in trained hands, can be used very effectively as a defensive weapon but in a manner that stops short of "deadly force." That's one of the things I like about nunchaku, but governments and legislatures rarely make such an analysis. In New York, nunchaku are illegal because back in the 1970s they started becoming popular with gangs, etc. In California and New York, people have been prosecuted in recent years simply for possessing nunchaku in their homes, but at least California makes an exception for possession on the premises of martial arts schools. New York makes no such exception, and thus is the MOST draconian state in the union regarding nunchaku laws.

As you may know, the nunchaku evolved into a martial arts weapon because the invading Satsuma "government" disarmed the people of Okinawa in the 1600s. The nunchaku thus has a long history of association with resistance to oppression by "authorities," continuing right up into 21st Century America...

Jim Maloney http://homepages.nyu.edu/~jmm257

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#110016 - 10/05/03 08:40 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DragonFire1134:
This post is a to little to late, but they may as well go ahead and lock my @$$ up in prison. Boy, if they searched my home...I'd never see the light of day aqain. I'm going to do my thing regardless of what the law says. I'm not hurting anybody when I train with classical/homemade weapons. The law is very VERY ignorant. I can probaly kill an intruder with a pen through his eyeball more quickly than with a nunchacku. They should be looking for real criminals and not the responsible martial artist![/QUOTE]

Check this out:
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~jmm257/spitzerprofile.html

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#110017 - 10/06/03 08:02 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
DragonFire1134 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1479
Loc: Theodore (mobile), Alabama
i'm preparing for my trip down town as we speak [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/cool.gif[/IMG]

maybe i should hide my homemade silencer, crack pipes and hit list though....hmmm....

no but seriously, that is crazy. Whats the world coming to? I live AL and so far i don't believe that we have such a law. I would investigate but *yawn* I need to practise swinging my nunchaku outside in my yard....

[This message has been edited by DragonFire1134 (edited 10-06-2003).]

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#110018 - 10/08/03 01:00 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
kman Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/03
Posts: 368
Loc: minnesota
Sweeny and Mr V. In regard to comments and questions regarding the 2nd amendment. Part of the issue is whether or not to regard it as an individual or a collective right. As of this year a federal appelate court has held it to be an individual right. Opponets have long held that it was a collective right and as such the orginized militia(national guard) had a right but not an individual. The constitution uses the phrase "the people" in many many places and in every instance except the 2nd amendment it has always been held to mean each and every individual. The notion of it being a collective right is a transparent red herring. One that doesnt pass the smell test by a wide margin. In the absence of a definitive ruling by the supreme court states and federal districts are free to interpet laws differntly. The supreme court has only heard a 2nd amendment case 3 times in the last 200 years. They avoid it like the plauge and give the lower courts the oppourtunity to do the right thing. Hence our hodgepodge of laws. Gun rights groups and anti's vie to frame the argument and get test cases in front of whichever judge they feel will give a favorable ruling and thus establish the much coveted precedent. In 1927 (I think) the supreme court held that weapons not suitible for military service in the militia were not protected by the 2nd amendment. The case involved a sawed off shotgun which was found to be a weapon of little military significance and hence not protected. It also gave a confusing ruling that stated that the states have SOME right to regulate arms but didnt stipulate which ones or how much. It's perfectly leagal to own a machinegun here as long as you pay the 200.00 tax. This is the colour under which some small jurisdictions ban handguns or "assault weapons" (misnomer).
Now you might be asking yourself why would the court use the standard of military arms for suitibilty? I hope your sitting down. We have the right to keep and bear arms so that we can overthrow our government should it become oppressive. This is well established in law and the writing of the framers of the constitution. So should we find ourselves in a guerilla war with ourselves, nunchuks probably wont be in the mix. Hence no 2nd amendment protection.
thank you for reading this. Karl NRA Life Member.

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#110019 - 10/08/03 01:51 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
Kman, you seem well informed. We now have this thread going in two places, though (I had pretty much abandoned this one). The sawed-off shotgun case was 1939. You'll see some of my other responses on the other thread, and I suggest we continue it there. BTW, I'm also a Life Member of the NRA, since about 1992. Let's not forget that Jeff Cooper warned Second Amendment advocates not to allow themselves to be divided and conquered. If the antique-firearms guys say the Second Amendment applies only to their weapons and not "modern" ones, and the hunting types take the same position as to their weapons (i.e., only "sporting" weapons), and so on, there is no voice of unity. I personally do not believe the word "arms" in the Second Amendment could possibly be restricted to firearms, and I certainly DO believe that any text-based or originalist interpretation of the Second Amendment must include nunchaku, given the nunchaku's history. Whether the courts will agree is another matter. In the final analysis, though, I have more hope in an alternative source built on "right to privacy" case law (Ninth Amendment, substantive due process, etc.).

But the bottomn line question is this: can a government be anything less than totalitarian if it threatens to imprison its citizens for up to a year for the mere possession of a pair of sticks connected by a cord in the privacy of the citizen's own home for legitimate martial arts purposes and with no element of malicious intent? The techniques of using the nunchaku as a weapon arose under the regime of one oppressive government in the 1600s. Can another government that 400 years later bans even that simple farm-implement-turned-weapon undre threat of imprisonment be any less oppressive? Can the Constitution that I took an oath to uphold when I got my Navy commission in 1980 allow all that? I hope not.

[This message has been edited by Sweeney (edited 10-08-2003).]

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#110020 - 10/08/03 03:00 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
kman Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/03
Posts: 368
Loc: minnesota
Could you do an end run around the law by claiming your numchuks to be a rice flail as they were before they were weaponized? how about if a store markets them as such and issues you a reciept for them as a farm implement? Imagine yourself in court introducing a farm implement catalog into evidence so you could support the argument.LMAO.

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#110021 - 10/17/03 04:42 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
malanr Offline
Member

Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 66
Loc: IN USA
You know, this reminds me of that Indiana jones movie when the guy with the big sword threatens to kill him, then Jones just shoots the guy.

Which weapon was more dangerous? HUMMMMMM?!

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#110022 - 01/12/04 09:14 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
pod3 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 62
You could do like the martial artists of old, and make legal improvisations. But PRACTICAL enforcement of these laws is definitely within the realm of "discretionary," regardless of your state or county. The presense of the weapons will be used to prove intent if, and only if, they want to - no matter where you are. I've played cleancut, but not kiss-assy, and have amazing things returned to me on the street in southern CA.

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#110023 - 03/24/04 04:27 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
ninjitsu Offline
Stranger

Registered: 03/23/04
Posts: 4
Loc: Canada
Heres my crappy situation:
I live in Canada and cops searched my house and found 60 something throwing stars, 2 mini pistol crossbows, 5 butterfly (balisong) knives, 4 or 5 pairs of nunchaku, blow gun. They also took some throwing knives and my sais which i know are not illegal. He said i would get what ever back that was not illegal. I just got busted and arrested a few days ago and got to go to court at the end of April. I dont know how they deal with this in Canada but i would hate to have a criminal record or even have to get locked up. You imagine being in jail with murders and rapists, and them asking you why you are in there, " uh i had a few sticks being held together with a chain" LOL. I really dont want to be any ones bitch. Any ways i guess i have to call a lawyer here soon and find out how serious this is. The shi--y part about it is they were all display and for training in my own house. Never left the house, i guess they dont care though, something really has to be done with this law. Its totally @ss backwards. I mean why dont i just stock up on some guns [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif[/IMG]

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#110024 - 03/24/04 06:53 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Illegal, who cares.

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#110025 - 03/24/04 01:41 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
immrtldragon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 1540
Loc: Just outside Philadelphia, PA
Ummm...you didn't really mention why they searched your house to begin with. I know it wasn't a random martial arts weapons search. Wouldn't they need a warrant to search your house?

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#110026 - 03/24/04 08:22 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
dj1023 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/04
Posts: 87
Loc: Asia
Hello all

i live in jakarta indonesia and the rule of nunchakus here might seem a little odd.

in jakarta, it is illegal to carry a firearm for ordinary citizens unless licensed by the police or other government security body (this pretty much means paying the officials a load of money for a license which often by passes med check or psychology test hence guns are a social status owned by the rich elites) or any other sharp object which could be used as a weapon (this includes ice picks believe it or not)

however nunchakus are not exactly illegal bearing in mind that they do not fall in the sharp object category.

i say not exactly illegal because it depends on the officer who's asking. (unfortunately indonesian police officers are known to be corrupt and some higher ranking officers even admitted taking bribes...although it has somewhat changed, anyways...)

if the guy who pulled over your car turns out to be a nice officer then he/she won't detain you (nunchakus aren't in the weapon ban list) however if the officer who pulled you over has a chip on his shoulder,you're locked up.

an interesting story is that i was met an ice carpenter who was arrested for carrying an ice pick but failed to prove the officers with "legal papers" to prove his profession.
he was released later after making "peace" with the arresting officers.

conclusion :

you can carry nunchakus around in your neighborhood, as long as your not injuring anyone, even carry it in your car .

nunchakus aren't illegal in indonesia (depending on the officer who's questioning / pulling you over)

=)

peace

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#110027 - 03/25/04 12:15 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
ninjitsu Offline
Stranger

Registered: 03/23/04
Posts: 4
Loc: Canada
Actually its pretty emabarassing how they searched my house. My girlfriend is from the other side of the country and was basically in a wreck as she misses her family. And me going to work on night shift doesnt help. She was crying pretty loudly that day, i live in a 6plex and my ex girlfriend (who hates me with a passion ) lives on the other side of the wall. So she called the police, as a "domestic disturbance" 2 Police arrive, I answer door, while girlfriend was in bedroom not wanting to talk to cops. Cops want to talk to each of us seperatly to probably ask us diferent questions, 1 cop was coming down stairs where the broom is and i told him to go upstairs and i would get her out. He would not and said he had the right to go down there as it was a domestic disturbance. Sure enough the old lady opens the door to talk to cop and all my throwing stars are on the wall. Like a banner effect for display. Thats how i got arrested on Saint Patricks Day. The said they could either get a search warrant or i could sighn for them to search. I said "if you get a search warrant, whats going to stop me from stashing these weapons" The cop said that only 1 cop would leave while the other one stayed with me. I dont know if this is BS but maybee i should of contacted a lawyer then. They said it would look better in court if i signed the search papers. So i did, stupid? [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif[/IMG]

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#110028 - 03/25/04 01:29 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
immrtldragon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 1540
Loc: Just outside Philadelphia, PA
Not stupid...it's always best to cooperate. Good luck.

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#110029 - 04/03/04 05:05 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
I'm afraid I have to disagree. It is NOT always best to cooperate. It is best in the long run, I hope and believe, to know your rights, to politely but firmly do your best to keep them from being trampled upon, and then be ready to fight about it for years after they have. That's what I'm doing. (Next court conference is May 7, 2004. Referenced events occurred August 23, 2000.)

Jim Maloney

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#110030 - 04/04/04 03:45 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
immrtldragon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 1540
Loc: Just outside Philadelphia, PA
Maybe not always and throughout the entire process...of course if you want to plead not guilty and they say you are guilty you don't want to cooperate and say "yes, I am guilty." But if the cops come to your home and have probable cause and they will get a warrent anyway, just cooperate and let them search...instead of having them stand there and send another guy to get the warrent, then waste everyone's time. That's where I meant cooperate.

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#110031 - 05/19/04 05:19 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
Well, here in the US cops bluff all the time and tell you they CAN get a warrant. It's not their call, though. I'm inclined to tell them politely that they are not invited to enter my home unless and until they show me that piece of paper. (Not that I have anything to hide, officer, but I do believe in the Constitution. In fact, in 1980 I took an oath to defend it "against all enemies, foreign AND DOMESTIC!")

Jim Maloney

[This message has been edited by Sweeney (edited 05-19-2004).]

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#110032 - 05/20/04 10:08 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
xerxes Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 515
Loc: Georgia, USA
Sweeney,

We have not heard much from you in awhile. How is the legal battle going?

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#110033 - 05/20/04 10:26 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
Well, the Attorney General's office was supposed to make a motion that would have addressed most of the constitutional issues in the case. The advantage of letting them "move first" would be that all the facts alleged in my complaint would be treated as true (as they are) for purposes of the motion. But, alas, the State moves slowly (and sometimes does not move at all): they have never gotten around to briefing their motion despite having agreed to various briefing schedules in conferences before the federal magistrate. So at the last conference I let it be known that I will now be the one making the first motion, seeking summary judgment (i.e, a definitive ruling in my favor without the need for trial). I have started the ball rolling by serving the Attorney General's office with my statement of what I claim to be the relevant undisputed facts. They now have an opportunity to make a counterstatement, following which I am to write a letter to the judge requesting a pre-motion conference at which we will agree to a (firmer) briefing schedule. Justice moves slowly but it does move. I have several web pages devoted to the case, with lots of links and regular updates. Check it out:
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~jmm257/mvs.html

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#110034 - 06/27/04 10:52 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
Just added a new web page where I will continue to blog updates. We had a status conference before the magistrate on June 18, and the ball is now in my court to finish writing a brief over the summer that will convince a federal judge that it is unconstitutional for the State to make it a crime to possess, in one's own home, two wooden sticks connected by a cord. I've made that new web page, http://home.earthlink.net/~nunchakulaw, my new profile page on this forum. The older (NYU) web pages (see previous post) are still there, and will be for a while (until at least May 2005), but I will post new updates only to the new page.

Jim

[This message has been edited by Sweeney (edited 06-27-2004).]

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#110035 - 07/26/04 08:40 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
pod3 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 62
Best or safest to cooperate?

They'll put some on you if they want to find you with them. This has happened to acquaintances who would not have lied, anyways.

[This message has been edited by pod3 (edited 07-26-2004).]

[This message has been edited by pod3 (edited 07-26-2004).]

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#110036 - 08/11/04 10:39 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
CALIFORNIA IS PROSECUTING MARTIAL ARTISTS FOR PEACEFUL POSSESSION OF NUNCHAKU IN THEIR HOMES

I first learned of California’s having prosecuted in-home possession of nunchaku while doing on-line research in July 2003. I have now learned of an additional California prosecution. Specifically, on July 18, 2004, I received a telephone call from a gentleman named Harold Vaughn, who currently resides in San Jose, California, although he is domiciled in Virginia. I spoke with Mr. Vaughn again on August 7, 2004. Mr. Vaughn has been a martial artist for over 30 years, was the Virginia director of the U.S. National Karate Association, and currently resides in California because he completed a J.D. program there earlier this year and, before his recent conviction, was preparing for the California bar exam, which he has subsequently postponed for obvious reasons. In early 2004, police who had legally entered Mr. Vaughn’s residence saw a nunchaku on display on the wall with his martial arts certificates and found other nunchaku in his home pursuant to a consent search. The State of California subsequently charged Mr. Vaughn with six counts of violation of California Penal Code § 12020, a misdemeanor, for his possession of the nunchaku in his home. On July 19, 2004, Mr. Vaughn, threatened with prosecution for six misdemeanor counts with consecutive sentencing leading to six years of incarceration, represented by Deputy Public Defender Alfred Spielmann, Esq. of the Santa Clara County Office of the Public Defender, pled “no contest” to a single count of violation of Penal Code § 12020 in Department 50 of the California Superior Court, Santa Clara County (Judge Stafford), Case No. CC00452996.

Yesterday I wrote to the California Governor (Arnold Schwarzenegger) about this disturbing prosecution. Concerned martial artists should do the same. To view my letter in pdf (with Mr. Vaughn's telephone number redacted), go to:
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~jmm257/cagov.ltr.pdf

To e-mail the Governor, go to:
http://www.govmail.ca.gov/

[This message has been edited by Sweeney (edited 08-11-2004).]

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#110037 - 08/12/04 06:55 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
ken harding Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/21/04
Posts: 721
Loc: UK
Kennedy attributes the origin of federalism to the US, and he may be right,

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Just one point re federalism. It is my undertstanding that the US system was actually modelled upon Swiss Federalism as the founding fathers thought it looked to be rather a good idea!

Ken

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#110038 - 12/17/04 02:10 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Funny story actually. where i live in bolton, uk, there is a store in the town centre that sold martial arts weapons, mainly for display. however, they also sold a good pair of nunchuku for a reasonable price, and hence one day i bought them as i could no longer resist.

after i bought them they were packaged and i left the shop. as i walked away i was appeoached by a police officer who asked to see the contents of the bag i was carrying, which i showed him. stood only feet away from the shop. he then escorted me to the nearest police station and placed me under arrest, on charges of carryin and illicit and dangerous weapon in a public place.
you see it turns out that selling a weapon over here in the UK is fine and you can distribute them freely, but as soon as you carry one in a public place, you are commiting a crime, hence there are laws in enforcement preventing any weapon slaes in the UK as htere is no possible legal way you can transport them home.
I would fuly understand the officers concern if i was waving them about, or if i had brought them from home, but i had infact just bought them. as he and his superior officer interviewed me, you could see his superior officers anguish when he realised exactly what his underling had done. not only was it entrapment, but my saviour from being officiallyl charged was my proof.
the reciept i had at which i bought it said a time of 3:08. the time of arrest was 3:08. the officer had deliberately watched me buy the nunchuku and then arrested me infront of the staff of the store, perhaps hoping that i was underage and they would have had grounds to end the feud the local police had been having with this store.
however, when they facts came out i was realesed without charges, albeit without nunchuku, but to be honest i was glad to be out of a situation where i could have recieved a criminal record. they still tried to charge me with having weapons, but i explained that i was to use them for display purpouses and there was no intent for violence behind them, i then explained to him that a pen could be considered a weapon and a more dangerous one if the intent was there, hence someone who is really P**sed off and is carrying a pen with them poses more of a threat to society than I.

bizzarely enough, the officer said he would ahve let me go and let me keep my nunchuku afterwards if i had told them i was using them to train(go figure). he told me that although my intentions were harmless, if someone had wrenched them away from me and used them irresponsibly there could be injuries or fatalities, but if i knew how to use them myself they wouldnt ahve to worry about that. (i dont even know here to begin with that, drove me crazy for weeks)

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#110039 - 12/22/04 05:46 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
MrVigerous Offline
Former Administrator

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 2498
Loc: UK
Might I suggest that the officer in question was talking out of his arse and should have employed judgement of a far higher standard than appears to be the case from your description of events.

Yes - Rice flails (nunchuku) were deemed to be offensive weapons 'per se' in the case of Copus v DPP [1989].

Yes - you were in a public place

However, given that you had just that second bought them, had a receipt to prove this and were more than likely (though I dont know this) transporting them in a bag of some description to your home (and the officer clearly new this), a little matter called Reasonable Excuse really should have popped into his head. On the facts as you have presented them, there appears to have been bugger all hope of a successful prosecution against you and he really should have grasped that, and used his discretion rather than wasting everyone's time.

As for the Nunchuku being taken off you by some random loony in the street - yeah really.....I don't recall that prospect being written into any offensive weapon legislation in England and Wales.

As for the Nunchucks themselves - i'd demand your lawful property back.

Regds
Mr V



[This message has been edited by MrVigerous (edited 12-22-2004).]

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#110040 - 12/22/04 06:30 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home?
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
Ahh, the situation would be so much easier here in New York. They're equally illegal everywhere: in a bag, in a box, in a car, or in your home. So nice of our wise and prudent legislators to keep it simple for us!

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#110041 - 08/08/06 08:18 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home? [Re: Sweeney]
ninjarob Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 2
I have a simple solution to the problem of owning nunchaku in the US

first get two rifles you may have to saw the barrel down abit to get them to the right length. Then drill a hole in the stock of the rifle before attaching both together with a short chain once compleated you have a wonderfull pair of unique wood/metal nunchaku that are perfectly legal.

on top of that should you be given any trouble by the police the NRA will back you with there impresive legal might AND should you need to defend your home you are no longer out ranged by a criminal with a guns as well as maintaing the brutal up close advantage that comes with a pair of nunchaku. of course for extra legal protection we can't call them nunchaku so i would suggest calling them gunchucks. remember don't brake the law use GunChucks its what the goverments wants you to do

of course if you live in texas i would recomend replaceing the rifels with some kinda of automatic weapon just to be safe


Edited by ninjarob (08/08/06 08:19 AM)

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#110042 - 08/08/06 10:59 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home? [Re: ninjarob]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
Wow that seems incredibly innacurate and complicated.

Just don't get into trouble with the authorities on your way to and from your dojo.

Problem solved. No one cares if you have nunchaku unless you start acting up with them.

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#110043 - 08/08/06 11:12 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home? [Re: ninjarob]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
You are a complete idiot.

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#110044 - 08/08/06 11:13 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home? [Re: JoelM]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Guys...I think he was joking.

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#110045 - 08/08/06 07:53 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home? [Re: JoelM]
ninjarob Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 2
bloody hell no sence of hummor some people

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#110046 - 08/09/06 12:32 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home? [Re: ninjarob]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
You bring up a thread that's over a year and a half dead to make a joke that's not even funny. I stand by my assertion.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#110047 - 08/09/06 07:46 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home? [Re: ninjarob]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
well, it showed a little creativity by pointing out the rediculousness of wood on string to be unconditionally illegal, yet something indescriminate like automatic weapons designed only for killing things in the general area are conditionally legal.
maybe an alternative to the joke could be 'chumchucks' whereby a weapon is made from illegal adult toys.

on topic:
yes, nunchaku are illegal in Massachusetts. but it's one of those laws that as long as you are not doing something ELSE which is illegal, then having them is sortof equivalent to jaywalking.

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#110048 - 08/09/06 08:01 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home? [Re: JoelM]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
A newbie digs up an old post instead of starting yet another, oh so boring thread on numchuks. 2 Stars.

Makes a creative reply. 2 Stars.

Doesn't use lots of stupid icons. Another 2 Stars.

First, or so, post, misunderstood (Been there, done that.) Minus 2 Stars.

Responds with good measured humor. Another 2 Stars.

Ninjabob...doing good! Welcome to the forum!

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#110049 - 08/09/06 04:32 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home? [Re: JoelM]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
Quote:

You are a complete idiot.




Always nice to see our moderators enforcing and following the rules

Quote:

# Follow the forum rules.
# Trolling, profanity, personal attacks, and rude behavior will not be tolerated.



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#110050 - 08/09/06 10:20 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home? [Re: paradoxbox]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
That was being nice. I can get rude if you want.

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#110051 - 08/09/06 10:39 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home? [Re: JoelM]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
I see. Well this place is certainly charming isn't it.

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#110052 - 09/21/06 12:45 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home? [Re: the504mikey]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
1st of all, from what I remember, the law was passed as many were hurting themselves with the weapon. That is why NY passed the law. There is no exception for martial artists or if they are kept in your home. mere possession is against the law.

2nd, the Constitution does afford one the right to bear arms, but the High Court has upheld common sense limits, such as license requiements that many states have.

3rd, there would be noi federal case if a NY prosecutor did not file charges, unless possession is against a specific section of the US Title Code, which I do not know, but would guess it is not.

Most criminal laws in the States are set by the individual States. Federal law sonetimes overlaps, but they tend to be type specific ie, kidnapping across state lines, bank robbery, as banks are regulated/insured by the FDIC, counterfitting currency, as money is printed by the federasl government. Other federal crimes exist, as it is better handled by a national effort, ie terrorism.

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#110053 - 10/31/08 09:47 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home? [Re: HeadlessHorseman]
kempo223 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 2
Quote:

You can't have nunchaku, even in your home, in New York, California and maybe a few other states in the US. It's the law! And in NY and CA you can do a year in prison for breaking that law, even if you say you were keeping the nunchaku in your home for "training purposes." The law was made by the People (a process called democracy). So no griping, OK? Law enforcement officers have a sworn duty to enforce the law, and you should be prepared to do hard time with the bad boys if you keep these dangerous weapons in your home for any reason. Don't like it? You have three options: hire a lobbyist, quit training with the 'chucks, or move!


My gripe is with freedom hating,anti constitutional communists like yourself; its people like you who need to get the hell out of MY country.My father along with the founding fathers of this country faught wars to secure the freedoms you pig scumbags take advantage of!You're a follower just like the rest of the masses or should I say cattle who bend down to kiss your masters asses.If its a police state you're looking for, you got one. So when the day martial law goes into effect which will be soon, and the men dressed in black clad outfits go from door to door and finally kicking down yours to rape and rob your family, I hope you are even happier then; providing you are against people having weapons in there home to defend themselves.You may want to take away freedoms from the mindless drones that can not think for themselves and follow like you, but you not going to TREAD ON ME!!!!NO WAY, NOT EVER!!!You liberal scumbags are not going to turn MY country into Stalinist Russia with your freedom hating rhetoric, so keep obeying your tyrannical, police state laws, mindless drone.

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#110054 - 10/31/08 11:03 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home? [Re: kempo223]
dandjurdjevic Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 844
Loc: Australia
In my State of Western Australia you can have a nunchaku if you can prove that you have it for a lawful purpose such as martial arts training.

Importantly, self-defence is not itself a "lawful purpose". In other words if the cops come to your house and find a nunchaku and ask you why you have it and you answer "I need it for protection" you'll be charged. If you say "I go to kobudo classes - here's my gi" you'll should be okay...

While you can sell and buy nunchaku, the Feral Garment (Federal Government) has banned importation, so we have to manufacture our nunchaku locally.

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#110055 - 11/03/08 03:50 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home? [Re: kempo223]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Quote:

You can't have nunchaku, even in your home, in New York, California and maybe a few other states in the US. It's the law! And in NY and CA you can do a year in prison for breaking that law, even if you say you were keeping the nunchaku in your home for "training purposes." The law was made by the People (a process called democracy). So no griping, OK? Law enforcement officers have a sworn duty to enforce the law, and you should be prepared to do hard time with the bad boys if you keep these dangerous weapons in your home for any reason. Don't like it? You have three options: hire a lobbyist, quit training with the 'chucks, or move!


My gripe is with freedom hating,anti constitutional communists like yourself; its people like you who need to get the hell out of MY country.My father along with the founding fathers of this country faught wars to secure the freedoms you pig scumbags take advantage of!You're a follower just like the rest of the masses or should I say cattle who bend down to kiss your masters asses.If its a police state you're looking for, you got one. So when the day martial law goes into effect which will be soon, and the men dressed in black clad outfits go from door to door and finally kicking down yours to rape and rob your family, I hope you are even happier then; providing you are against people having weapons in there home to defend themselves.You may want to take away freedoms from the mindless drones that can not think for themselves and follow like you, but you not going to TREAD ON ME!!!!NO WAY, NOT EVER!!!You liberal scumbags are not going to turn MY country into Stalinist Russia with your freedom hating rhetoric, so keep obeying your tyrannical, police state laws, mindless drone.




Most hateful post of the year!!!
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#110056 - 11/05/08 04:18 PM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home? [Re: BrianS]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
If you guys think things are bad in US, in UK (at least until recently) you weren't even allowed to see Bruce Lee using his chucks at the cinema.

When Enter the Dragon celebrated its 25th anniversary the cinema near me advertised the uncut version. On the day it was due to show they aplogised and said they'd have to show the BBFC cut version (where you don't even see the chucks) as the uncut wasn't legal to show.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#110057 - 11/06/08 03:07 AM Re: Nunchaku illegal in your home? [Re: trevek]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
That's just communist!
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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