Well maybe just say why you don't like Russians or what losing the cold war has to do with the efficacy of spetnatz training systema etc and maybe they'll let you live (if not walk)Tovarich .

Actually, the Russians I trained with in Judo a few years ago were actually very tough. I liked their style. Honestly, I don't know anything about Systema, so I can't comment on it.

Keep this thread out of politics por favor.

Not that CQB should be discounted but there are few examples that I can think of where one military H2H program completely outclasses any other.

Sorry Fletch, just couldn't see the point of the cold war comment.

check out www.russianmartialart.com .there you can get more info on systema.

Systema does seem to make over the top claims in some of it's advertisements, but then again name any product where the ad man does not get carried away.

The, "You should see Vlad", argument is used by some people in the style and personally I do not like it. If you cannot do the stuff yourself teaching is not what you should be doing.

This is no different than many styles where the presures of buisness or as in the case of systema where there is a lack of control from the centre of people teaching. Finding a decent instructor is essential.

There are numerous systema students and instructors who have found the art by accident or turned up to have a laugh and found it incredibly effective. Often these people have LEO or millitary careers and are very qualified in other arts. (This simply would not happen if it was a fake).

The problem mainly lies the perceptions of those that view a few clips and try to compare them to their own styles. This is very difficult to do because the systema approach is very different to what traditional or RBSD styles use.

In traditional arts there is kata or techniques. In systema there is no preset attacks or defences. This means that there is absolutely no choreography.

In RBSD the approach focuses on using aggression and forward drive. Systema does not use aggression and uses a mindset more similar to the concept of mushin (no mind) as used in Japanese martial arts. This fits in well with there being no set attacks or defences. If you have a set defence to apply you will find it very difficult to deal with the random nature of an attack.

The only thing to do if interested in what systema does or does not offer is to try a class. The best thing to do is check Vlad'site to ensure the instructor is certified. If on the list they should be able to do the work under presure.

Hope this helps in your understanding of what systema offers. I have spent the last 10 years as a front line LEO. In my experience Systema has alot to offer. However I only found this out when I gave it a go. Maybe instead of making comments people should do a little research first and attend a class.

Paul Genge

To sum up the russian military as systema is absurd. No one ever heard of the aikido army defeating the kung fu army. No one ever heard of the systema navy defeating the karate navy. ALL martial arts are basically screwy insurance policies. A martial art may give you the tools to increase your chances in a fight for your life, but it is no gurantee. If Systema is such an effective system, I wonder what's holding it back. I do know that it's not for me. There are many RBSD arts that provide the POSSIBILITY with saving your life. There are no secrets to combat.

I wonder what has happened to the other Russian arts? The thread is names Russian Spetnaz so wouldn't all arts be in line that were used by the Russian Special Forces? what about Buza, BARS, Kolo, Korosu,Kourdstan-tustuu, Kulachnoi Boya, Slaviano-Goritskaya Bor'ba, Sambo, Skoba, Sobor and Sokoli Stalina which was used by Stalin's Bodyguards. Russia itself is a vast amount of information on combat and among the best in the world when it comes to fighting arts. Plus a great country to visit with great people. I have often thought of relocating there when I am older, but I don't know if I ever will. Systema is just the new art on the block.