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#109848 - 02/16/03 04:24 PM TOOLS OF THE TRADE
NOFEAR Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 6
My department recently trained us in the ASP collapsable baton in addition to the PR-24 (tonfa Style) baton. Training for the ASP baton was shallow and limited to strikes unlike the usefulness of the PR-24. What other strike/submission moves are (legally) available and would make the ASP baton more useful than just it's compact size? I realize the Collapsability of the baton makes it limited and jabs are unlikely, but your thoughts on this are appreciated.

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#109849 - 02/23/03 09:46 AM Re: TOOLS OF THE TRADE
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
Having used a traditional British police truncheon, then a PR-24 and then onto a friction lock baton and finally a positive lock baton I can honestly say that I prefer the straight forward ASP style baton.

The PR-24 appears to be a more versatile tool, but the training implications were prohibitive. The takedowns taught using the PR-24 were in my experience, unrealistic and, in most scenarios, ineffective.

In addition, to become proficient with the PR-24 took me a long time and involved a lot of training and would need continual re-training to maintain the standard. Training with the positive lock baton was simple, workable and effective.

I've always found that a baton is pretty much a striking instrument rather than a restraining tool, and as such with the PR-24 it was much more difficult to develop real power in a confined space. Jabs and such like can be done with the baton in its collapsed position and when held in the clenched fist it adds considerable weight to punches as well.

In my opinion rigid cuffs are the best restraining device, as soon as one is one the fight is over.

Budo

PS What is your department?

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#109850 - 03/04/03 06:47 AM Re: TOOLS OF THE TRADE
NOFEAR Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 6
MAPLEWOOD PD IN NEW JERSEY.
THANKS FOR THE INFO.
I HAVE SINCE LEARNED A FEW OTHER MOVES SUCH AS SWEEPS AND SUCH.
AGAIN THANKS.
NOFEAR

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#109851 - 03/31/03 08:31 PM Re: TOOLS OF THE TRADE
Ashton Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/03
Posts: 54
Loc: Nope
Hey, NOFEAR, did your PD go through ASP itself or one of the other companies that teach collapsible baton ? I heard that ASP is a great company. I always enjoyed a blackjack, carried a Convoy for years. I am not that far away from NOFEAR. Not in NJ, at least. The PR 24 is too cumbersome and like Cato said, takes too long to get proficient with, I prefer a straight baton. Our PD Chief picked over the few of us with martial arts training, even picked over the few of us in any kind of decent physical condition and sent one of his pets to some school, not even a good one that instructs collapsible baton correctly and some compliance techniques. I spoke with one of our other guys in my PD who had real training by ASP Company before and said that the class that this clown in my PD put on and then gave certificates out on was not even taught correctly. We did not hit pads, or practice swinging it, using the old "Redman" suit, nada, or anything that you are supposed to do. I put my baton in my locker, screw that, if you use it and get sued and you know that the training was wrong, you are legally responsible, pitch a bitch and you are a whiner. I think that it was Jamoni that said it well on another topic...training. Or in this case, the lack of. How pathetic ! Use a self defense instructor class to spite the competent officers that you don't like by sending one of your boys to the class, no wonder cops are sued and hammered by the media ! If I have to, I'll send myself to the school and learn it right. Hey, NOFEAR, did you go to Street Survival this year in Atlantic City ? They always have neat stuff for sale there.

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#109852 - 02/26/04 02:49 PM Re: TOOLS OF THE TRADE
jdee2712 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/20/04
Posts: 10
Loc: Edinburgh,Scotland, UK
Most of the restraint techniques taught with the straight batons are just the same as those taught with the PR24. The only difference being that you don't have the short handle to immobilise the suspects wrist. I would agree with Cato that the batons aren't great for restraining but can be useful for passive resistance (demonstrators, etc).Also I agree with Cato that the best piece of kit we have in the UK are the rigid handcuffs. They really are the dog's b*****ks!! I have been in the police for 4 years and only once have drawn my baton, but the cuffs get used almost on a daily basis.

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#109853 - 05/26/04 11:52 PM Re: TOOLS OF THE TRADE
Celtic Dirk Offline
Stranger

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2
Loc: Occupied East Tennessee, CSA
Nothing beats the Slapjack!!!! The convoy can kill. Too much force in s small space. At least the slapjack deployes the force over a larger area are. Too bad it is considered a "thug weapon".

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#109854 - 06/08/04 09:18 PM Re: TOOLS OF THE TRADE
loki Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/11/04
Posts: 844
I was wandering the forum : Asp VS PR 24

My two cents, Monadnock pr-24-s ,Patent # 230150. The Pr 24 a strong no flex impact weapon, which can be used defensive, or offensive. In my opinion the Pr 24 used as a impact weapon has a unbeatable stopping power. Versus the ASP which has more of a whipping action. It bounces off the attackers body.

As I am not a police officier, I can only offer you what I know. Running with this weapon attached to the leg would be a bit akwared. Having said this, I would rather go into a situation, with the PR 24, than the ASP.

The ASP's ability to lay dormant until the moment of truth is great. Yet I find the power generated may not be enough to stop a attacker Jacked up on whatever.

As I understand the police have to "Take Care " of the trash polititians have handcuffed our police. The bad guys are th reason why the police are there. Now let them do their jobs.

The PR 24 is similar to the TONFA. The handle is like a Yarawa, giving the holder a firm srtiking point. not just used for restraints.

As for the ASP, take up an art such as Kali, in order to develop a good striking base.

Any other questions, just ask. As for my opinion it usually counts, since I have and still teach many police/military clients in the art of combat.

Sincerly, Kobun

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