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#109803 - 11/09/01 02:01 PM Professional Conflict
judderman Offline

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
Just wondering if any professionals have found it difficult making the transition from their martial arts training and that which is given you on the job (if any)?

When the preverbial hits the fan which springs to mind? Or are you able to switch from one to the other?


#109804 - 09/26/02 10:46 AM Re: Professional Conflict
SenseiTank Offline

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 24
Loc: Bronx, NY
[QUOTE]Originally posted by judderman:
Just wondering if any professionals have found it difficult making the transition from their martial arts training and that which is given you on the job (if any)?

When the preverbial hits the fan which springs to mind? Or are you able to switch from one to the other?


I am a security officer for a major corporation. I am in charge of the reception and all visitors, vendors, etc... have to identify themselves to me before they can step foot in. Most "suits" do not like to have to submit in this manner to a member of an "ethnic" group such as mine.
I purchased a copy of a book called Verbal Judo by Dr. George Thompson. I found that even though alot of the things that the book presented were things I already used, I felt that for me it would be better to modify it to fit more the Verbal Karate, specifically, Verbal Goju Ryu(LOL). This worked better because alot of suites are familiar with Verbal Judo and Dale Carnegie. So in my "altercations" I`ve had to "inflict injury" to show that policy will be enforced, no ifs ands or buts(butts).

But no physical altercations [IMG][/IMG]


#109805 - 10/14/02 06:30 AM Re: Professional Conflict
Cato Offline

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
I am a police officer and I also hold shodan in aikibudo and, without question, when the fur starts to fly my martial arts training is invaluable.

From practical experience I have found that I have a core of maybe 5 or 6 tried and trusted "favourite" techniques that I revert to when under pressure. Because I train in these more regularly than techniques taught to me by "the job" they are more natural to me than any others.

But the bottom line is that when self preservation takes over the techniques aren't done clean, as in the dojo, and they are mixed with a liberal amount of aggression and dirty fighting. So perhaps the best answer is that the techniques are taken from the training hall and made to work on the street by whatever means possible.


#109806 - 12/25/02 02:37 PM Re: Professional Conflict
dragon Offline

Registered: 10/03/02
Posts: 2
Loc: Abbotsford, BC, Canada
I have worked in the Corrections system now for 21 years. One thing we must realize is that all this training gives us a slight edge and during a conflict there is (hopefully) a moment of time where we can "See" the opening. There is no doubt that training in the MA and training in Law enforcement is different. Basiclly in Law enforcement you must be careful of getting carried away and being bogged down in paper work for months after your moment of conflict. It is my experience as someone else had said that we end up using a few selective moves that satisfy our own need for self defence and our need to be professional. In combat the goal is to stop the assault in Law enforcement the goal is to create and "arrest and control" although similar they can be very different.


#109807 - 12/30/02 03:00 PM Re: Professional Conflict
Cato Offline

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
I'm so glad to see the paperwork problem exists on both sides ofg the Atlantic [IMG][/IMG]

One of my main reasons for training in "do" arts as well as "jutsu" styles was that the former are more legally, morally and ethically defensible. I am a firm believer that we fight as we train, and if you train only in techniques meant to cause maximum injury, you will approach a real conflict in the same manner.

Both Judo and Aikido teach control of an opponent rather than disabling him, and I think that is important for any professional who's duties will bring them into violent conflict with others. So, whilst I thoroughly enjoy the "harder" jutsu arts, I think it essential that I temper them with less severe styles as well.

#109808 - 02/22/03 08:19 AM Re: Professional Conflict
Ashton Offline

Registered: 02/21/03
Posts: 54
Loc: Nope
Hi,Mr Tank and Mr Dragon as well as the others are all telling the truth actually. I have been in full-time law enforcement for 15 years and martial arts for almost 25 years. Another thing to consider unfortunately is: 1)your departments "use of force" policy, you know you could get your rump dragged in front of the District Attorney or your Chief or Internal Affairs because you used what someone (the defendant, a jealous officer, which every department has, a biased witness)who was not even at the incident would call "unreasonable force", which leads me to: 2)how far will your administration back you, if you are a political favorite in your department. I have guys who are terrible cops but because they are a**kissers they get praise and protection from the boss for completely overreacting(choking some kid for smoking a bowl of weed or bashing some mental case in the head with a flashlight because he did not move quickly enough)to some situations while some guys are threatened with disciplinary action for essentially handcuffing too tight. Sorry, but the rules change for every officer depending if you are in the Chief's clique. If you have been "on the job" for a while you know what I mean. And watch those video cameras, everyone has them, and your own department's video can be subpeonaed by the defendant or your own Chief or the DA (to save his behind and get rid of yours). Watch your back and where and when you have to apply force ! I am not ready to lose my house and pension for some DWI who is a little mouthy or a juvenile who takes a poke at me. It is sad but true, we have targets on on backs. Had to get that off of my back.

#109809 - 02/23/03 10:08 AM Re: Professional Conflict
Cato Offline

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
Ashton, We're only just begining to see the implications of constant video surveillance over here, but already I can see that you're speaking a lot of sense. Things have a nasty way of getting distorted, or taken out of context, when videos are involved. Like you, I'm in no hurry to risk my liberty and my pension over a moments loss of control because some shithead has been giving you grief.

We also have our blue eyed boys (and girls), who can do no wrong. They sing the company song, whatever it may be, and "challenge" anything they think isn't PC enough. It makes most of us sick, but these clowns get on and become high ranking officers.

Over here "the job" has gone nuts, and really has lost the plot. We need to get back to what we should be doing, not pratting about with politics.

Yours In Budo

#109810 - 02/24/03 03:26 AM Re: Professional Conflict
taebot Offline

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1166
I trained with Dr. Thompson in TKD. His influence got me to return to college. He was an ex-cop turned head of the English department and I thought, if a guy like that could do it...

He started me reading classic Literature. I read Magistre Ludi by Herman Hesse and was excited about the way it portrayed the human search for knowlege and purity.

It's hard to be in law enforcement anymore. I'm not a cop, but many of my teachers, students, and associates are.

Also Harrison Sensei has thoughts on how to assault someone while making it look innocent [IMG][/IMG] !

#109811 - 02/24/03 06:25 PM Re: Professional Conflict
Jamoni Offline

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
I'm trying to figure out how video footage could "confuse" an issue more than eyewitness accounts?

#109812 - 02/25/03 09:00 AM Re: Professional Conflict
Ashton Offline

Registered: 02/21/03
Posts: 54
Loc: Nope
Well, with video usage, depending where you live, the audio is not admissible. So, no one hears what is going on. Also, video is limited and you don't see what could be just out of the camera range or what has happenened before or after the video was shut off. Your "eyewitness" could have a tainted eye towards the police or even in some circumstances-the defendant(if he is a bad neighbor or involved in in a bad relationship with def). People are funny. On the job my favorite weapon is the pen.
I write everything down, everything, even if it is nonsense. We (my dept) is under seige. We have GPS systems in our cars and cameras everywhere. All gotten on some B.S. grant money. Got off of the martial arts track, but if you're reading this you must have some idea that the idea of being aware of your enviroment is applicable everywhere, even on the job, just like on the street. Eyes open !

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