FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 31 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
old1, Leonar, ManLar, Vimido, raya
22925 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
futsaowingchun 4
Ronin1966 3
GojuRyuboy13 2
Matakiant 1
cxt 1
October
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
10/20/14 10:32 AM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
Tan,Bong,Fuk & Wu Sao
by futsaowingchun
09/30/14 12:10 AM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
09/25/14 08:50 AM
Wing Chun-internal training
by futsaowingchun
09/23/14 09:01 PM
Martial News
by Matakiant
09/23/14 06:42 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by Leo_E_49
01/24/12 02:58 AM
Recent Posts
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
Today at 07:20 AM
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
10/20/14 10:32 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by swordy
10/11/14 09:21 AM
The Karate punch
by Ronin1966
10/09/14 03:16 PM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Ronin1966
10/08/14 09:22 PM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by AndyLA
10/04/14 10:20 AM
Tan,Bong,Fuk & Wu Sao
by futsaowingchun
09/30/14 12:10 AM
Wing Chun-internal training
by futsaowingchun
09/23/14 09:01 PM
Forum Stats
22925 Members
36 Forums
35582 Topics
432510 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#109765 - 02/26/01 01:23 PM Reasonable Amount of Force
Brewer Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/01
Posts: 468
Loc: Arizona,U.S.
Hello,
I asked this question of the Head instructor at a police Academy.If an individual was to attack a person and the individual being attacked,did every thing he could to avoid this situation,short of running away. And in the process of having to defend himself,broke his attackers leg.I asked him if this would be considered a resonable amount of force.He said that if the attacker got his leg broken,that it was his problem and that no court of law would see it any other way.I would like to know if anyone out there with knowledge of the law and self defense.Could help me out with any information regarding this type of situation.
Thank You
Your Brother in the Arts

Top
#109766 - 08/06/01 06:56 PM Re: Reasonable Amount of Force
judderman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
Unfortunately only the court could decide if the amount of force used was reasonable.
If you can honestly, in the cold light of day, justify your actions beyond "he/she/it shouldn't have messed with me" then you might be ok.
One must also remember that as a martial artist, your skill/ability would also come into question...afterall you are trained to inflict various forms of damage aren't you?
As a proffessional this is the very same problem I face. Not only have I been taught how to defend myself for my work, but I also train in Karate.
Sorry if the answer was so vague..
Budo

Top
#109767 - 08/07/01 07:25 PM Re: Reasonable Amount of Force
Bluescaster Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/07/01
Posts: 2
Loc: Tallahassee FL USA
As far as use of force in defending one's self, law enforcement personnel are likely going to fall under the standards put forth in the Graham and the Gardner US Supreme Court decisions.

Security personnel and others acting as private citizens are going to be bound by local laws such as 'retreat to the wall', etc.

The bottom line at this time is that no one is legally bound to accept a beating, but what you are allowed to do in order to avoid said beating is restricted.
As far as claiming after the fact that somone else's injuries were the result of self defense, just remember that there will be two sides to the story after the fact, and it would help a lot if your's was the most credible, not just a blanket claim.

paul

"Self defense is Nature's eldest law"
Dryden

Top
#109768 - 08/28/01 04:44 PM Re: Reasonable Amount of Force
Oldwolf Offline
Member

Registered: 08/27/01
Posts: 71
Loc: Scotland
Police officers are there to enforce the law not interpret it.
the scenario of justifiable force takes no account of the sudden escalation of violence and is an ass. ie the aggresor pushes you so you justifiably push him back, so he pulls a gun and shoots you, so you...bugger it too late.
What about the legitimate preemptive strike, when you felt under threat. Read it and weep I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six, on the other hand I'd rather avoid it completely.

[This message has been edited by Oldwolf (edited 08-28-2001).]

Top
#109769 - 07/25/02 02:26 PM Re: Reasonable Amount of Force
NAUMatt Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 68
Loc: Flagstaff, AZ, USA
I have heard quite often that if you are at least 1st dan, you must register yourself with local law enforcement, just as you would any other deadly weapon (i.e., a pistol). That said, I believe your first course of action when it looks as though confrontation is inevitable is to say (hopefully loudly enough for witnesses to hear): "I do not want to fight you." Of course, this also must be displayed in your actions. From there, to retreat would be the best choice. Given no other options, f- him/them up; at least you've covered your bases, and if you have witnesses saying you actively tried to avoid confrontation, that goes a long way in a court of law when trying to assess guilt. Of course, as others said, it is up to the discretion of the courts, and if I know police officers, they may just shoot you on sight or beat you down anyway depending on the damage you did, but that's another story. I have a minor in criminal justice, and that is pretty much what I've learned of the issue.

Hope I helped, Peace and Love

Top
#109770 - 07/25/02 02:30 PM Re: Reasonable Amount of Force
NAUMatt Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 68
Loc: Flagstaff, AZ, USA
In reviewing my post, I hope not to offend any officers on the boards. I know that many law enforcement officials take their job very seriously and are upstanding citizens, it is just unfortunate that none of my friends or I have had the good fortune to run into any of that sort (with one upstanding exception I can personally think of). My education basically reinforced my personal experiences as well, which adds to my bias. Again, though, I know a few do not represent the whole, and no insult was meant.

Peace and Love

Top
#109771 - 08/07/02 01:13 AM Re: Reasonable Amount of Force
Allen_S Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 8
[QUOTE]Originally posted by NAUMatt:
I have heard quite often that if you are at least 1st dan, you must register yourself with local law enforcement, just as you would any other deadly weapon (i.e., a pistol).

This is something that keeps cropping up. Granted, different states have different rules, but I have yet to be shown in writing where a certified martial artist must register themselves. Way too many problems with the whole concept. (e.g., what constitutes a 'certified' black belt?) Does anyone have any first-hand knowledge of such a thing?

Allen

Top
#109772 - 08/07/02 02:32 PM Re: Reasonable Amount of Force
NAUMatt Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 68
Loc: Flagstaff, AZ, USA
As with any state law, it will vary from state to state, and I'm sure it does not apply in all states. I'm not even sure if it does in my own. As I said, it's only heresay. As far as being a "certified" blackbelt, in many dojos I have seen one receives a certificate upon completion and passing of a rank-test in front of the masters of one's style. That would be "certified" in my book, but since when have lawmakers ever made sense anyway? [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

Peace and Love

(I have some spare time at work, I'll see if I can dig something up on it)

[This message has been edited by NAUMatt (edited 08-07-2002).]

Top
#109773 - 08/08/02 03:29 PM Re: Reasonable Amount of Force
NAUMatt Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 68
Loc: Flagstaff, AZ, USA
Well, I've been digging around, and I didn't find much. I found this link: http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/statelaws/arizona.pdf that in section 7-E states that nunchaku are considered a deadly weapon (this is an AZ site, but I found a few others from other states). However, I also found this one: http://home.uchicago.edu/~amvernon/PvMalik.htm about a case where a guy said "oh, those are for fighting?" and got off for posession. Gotta love our legal system. No $h|t they're for fighting!

Top
#109774 - 08/08/02 07:54 PM Re: Reasonable Amount of Force
MrVigerous Offline
Former Administrator

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 2498
Loc: UK
I dont know about the US but in the UK you certainly dont have to register yourself with the authorities for attaining a 1st Dan.
The simple reason being i assume that it is
(a)pointless (b)impossible to regulate. This however is not the case in Japan where i believe anyone holding a "legitimate" (so i presume they mean Japanese recognised) 3rd Dan must register by law with the local police.

Regds

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >


Moderator:  Cord, Fletch1, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Fight Videos
Night club fight footage and street fights captured with the world's first bouncer spy cam

How to Matrix!
Learn ten times faster with new training method. Learn entire arts for as little as $10 per disk.

Self Defense
Stun guns, pepper spray, Mace and self defense products. Alarms for personal and home use.

TASER MC26C
Stop An Urban Gorilla: Get 2 FREE TASER M26C Replacement Air Cartridges With Each New TASER M26C!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga