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#109472 - 10/27/04 04:37 PM Sanchin breathing
karate-do Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 428
Loc: Wales
Could someone with personal experience of Sanchin breathing please explain this to me? I practice Shotokan karate so im not so fortunate as to be taught it like a Goju Ryu practitioner

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#109473 - 11/10/04 10:49 AM Re: Sanchin breathing
karate-do Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 428
Loc: Wales
nobody here can explain?

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#109474 - 11/10/04 09:20 PM Re: Sanchin breathing
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ever study seisan the breathing is similier, deep slow breathing is how I do the Kata I'm not to fond of sanchin I prefer Kanku dai and chibana Kusanku.

[This message has been edited by AgenT (edited 11-10-2004).]

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#109475 - 11/12/04 12:42 PM Re: Sanchin breathing
karate-do Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 428
Loc: Wales
can you explain seisan in more depth?

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#109476 - 11/13/04 12:49 AM Re: Sanchin breathing
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ok in the system of Karate I studied Seisan is a power kata. The whole body remains tense thoughout the kata, every muscle. Breathing is done deep like you were doing a powerblock. Breathing on strikes is very forcefull often completely emptying the lungs completely of air. The main concept in this kata is dynamic tension and defensive breathing incase you get hit. It also puts emphasis on strengh. It is alot like a tiger style kata. Powerfull forcefull movements designed to break right though blocks and defenses. Kanku Dai and Kusanku are the oppisite of seisan they use relaxed often whipping and circle movement as opposed to seisan which is linear movement.

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#109477 - 05/18/05 04:19 PM Re: Sanchin breathing [Re: karate-do]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
It is the begining of Iron Body Training and Chi channeling, breathing as it is with most internal systems like Tai-chi, Pakua & Hising-i... is the heart of developing Chi.

Until this is realize it is a kata that build internal and external fitness. More details on each move would be mute because you don't know the form.
_________________________
DBAckerson

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#109478 - 05/20/05 10:11 AM Re: Sanchin breathing [Re: karate-do]
melnaegeli Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 9
Loc: Stuyvesant, NY
Sanchin breathing is a really quick inhale with a "blow through the straw" exhale. It aides in keeping your body really really tight while making sure you're not holding your breath. Our Sensei told me that although it isn't necessary to do the "hiss" on the exhale they teach it that way to make sure the students understand the exhale portion of the breathing.

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#109479 - 05/25/05 12:14 PM Re: Sanchin breathing [Re: melnaegeli]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Sanchin breathing is not quick it follows the movement of the arm. The tension performs an strengthen function of the ligaments, tendons and muscles of the entire body, it especially strengthens posture and leg muscles even the feet & toes if done properly.

The sequences are slow so as to concentrate on total body and corodinate movement with breathing. Usually in the intermediate stage the Kata performer is struck and slapped (on the forearm, shoulders, backside), kicked between the legs, thighs, stomach, boards broken on your fist, head, thighs, forearms, all this is ignored as you contiune rythmatically movement and breathing. You are eventually able to absorb punches/strikes to pressure points like solar plex, even repell the attacker away as if he has ran into a wall. This is developed from basic to shodan/intermediate level then you really start training. It is the basic of Gung-fu's Iron body training it is not a dance or just to get a trophy, its about vitally and health. It opens the door between your external/hard and Internal/soft training.

It is said that Hagashionna Master could stand in sanchin with two people on opposite sides, pulling on an obi looped around his neck he could not be choked out.
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#109480 - 08/08/05 11:30 PM Re: Sanchin breathing [Re: Neko456]
jc4199 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/05
Posts: 362
Loc: Pevely, MO U.S.A
How often should a beginner to Sanchin breathing do it? I have done 3 reps of 3 for the last 4 days my stomach is sore form the work out. Am I over doing it the pain is not that great but i can tell its there. Should I cut back and let them rest.

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#109481 - 08/09/05 04:29 AM Re: Sanchin breathing [Re: jc4199]
CVV Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/06/04
Posts: 605
Loc: Belgium
You should not have pain. Abdominal muscles can be sore from workout but that's normal and should pass after a day. If you feel the abdominal muscles are hurting STOP training until you have recuperated.
Make sure you have properly warmed-up before sanchin practise (if I am not warmed-up enough I get cramps in my rib muscles).
What bothers me is that you have a sore feeling in the stomach. Check your breathing with your instructor. If the breathing is not correct (abdominal) you should not stress the muscles. If you keep breathing incorrect, stressing the muscles, you will get health problems.
A simple test is to stress the abdominal muscles at virtual maximum and then check your breathing. You should be able to breath in and out without loosing the stress on abdominal muscle. If you feel you can not hold it, or that you are holding your breath to keep the stress, breathing is wrong. In that case, STOP training on your own and seek help from your instructor.

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#109482 - 08/09/05 07:58 AM Re: Sanchin breathing [Re: jc4199]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
I train sanchin daily at home and generally to 4 reps of the kata, first with no tension, second with a little more and the third with even more (however I wouldnt describe this as dynamic, goju style tension, I then finsih with the final rep with no tension again.

works for me.
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#109483 - 08/09/05 08:25 PM Re: Sanchin breathing [Re: karate-do]
Crash Offline
Buckle up!

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 627
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Sanchin breathing? Stupid question: is this what mr Miyagi taught Daniel in Karate Kid 2? sorry, couldn't resist... but I really don't know what it is. I'll just ask my sensi.
_________________________
Even though you only have two arms you can still block with your forearms.

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#109484 - 08/10/05 07:07 PM Re: Sanchin breathing [Re: CVV]
jc4199 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/05
Posts: 362
Loc: Pevely, MO U.S.A
My stomach was not hurting more my abs were sore. The only thing I was doing wrong was holding my breath too long and over worked my abs. Feel great today getting ready to go jump rope and a bit of Sanchin Breathing.
_________________________
Jason Defeat never comes to any man until he admits it. 272

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#109485 - 08/10/05 11:42 PM Re: Sanchin breathing [Re: melnaegeli]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Quote:

Sanchin breathing is a really quick inhale with a "blow through the straw" exhale. It aides in keeping your body really really tight while making sure you're not holding your breath. Our Sensei told me that although it isn't necessary to do the "hiss" on the exhale they teach it that way to make sure the students understand the exhale portion of the breathing.




Quick inhale! No,wrong. Long deep breath in the nose. Long breath out with the arm extension,all while staying tense.
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Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#109486 - 08/12/05 06:17 AM Re: Sanchin breathing [Re: SANCHIN31]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
uechi ryu version is quicker breathing and faster technique delivery, same principles I beleive just faster application.
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#109487 - 08/15/05 02:50 AM Re: Sanchin breathing [Re: shoshinkan]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Quote:

uechi ryu version is quicker breathing and faster technique delivery, same principles I beleive just faster application.




I guess I overlooked the different versions.
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#435627 - 01/15/13 03:15 PM Re: Sanchin breathing [Re: karate-do]
rokyudan Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/13/13
Posts: 3
i'm new to the forum, but since sanchin is a big part about what i am writing my thesis on, i thought i'd throw in my 2 cents for you.


Sanchin translates as "Three Conflicts," "Three Battles," or "Three Gods;" the three conflicts referring to mind, body, and spirit. Sanchin brings these three together to create a state of enlightenment. Sanchin is a widely practiced kata, present with minor variants in Isshinryu, Goju-Ryu, Uechi-Ryu, Shito-Ryu, and Shotokan.

Its origin can be traced to the stationary breathing exercises performed by Buddhist monks at the original Shaolin Monastery. These breathing exercises were developed by Bodhidharma [buddha]to provide a regimen for the monks so that they would not fall asleep during long hours of meditation. These basic exercises were then expanded by the monks into a method of empty-hand combat so they could defend themselves and their monastery from invaders.

All movements are conducted in an isometric fashion with the emphasis given in strong ibuki breathing. During sanchin, the karateka uses the breath of the han. the breath of the han comes from the diaphragm and is used for power or tension movements as opposed the the breath of the su, which are used for taeszu or speed movements.

in shorei-ryu [cousin of shotokan] we perform sanchin with open hand movements to allow the flow of chi, unlike the closed fist used in goju.

this is an aesthetic kata using isometrics to strengthen mind body and spirit. you cannot achieve satori without knowing sanchin.

if i didn't answer what you were looking for, feel free to send me a pm, and i'll try to be more specific to your thoughts.


cheers,


sensei jon, 6th dan shorei-ryu

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#435632 - 01/17/13 05:03 PM Re: Sanchin breathing [Re: rokyudan]
rokyudan Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/13/13
Posts: 3
oops spoke too quickly. 3 conflicts are actually: birth, life death. mind, body spirit are 3 aspects of karate, just like kata, kumite, temeshawara

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#435640 - 01/20/13 11:19 AM Re: Sanchin breathing [Re: rokyudan]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Jon:

Welcome.

You will have a tough time finding any primary source materials for such a thesis. Many have debunked the Shaolin connections quite easily and well. Anticdotal stories sure, but anything resembling fact, evidence based, do not exist.

Satori, chi... if I were living in a culture which used such terms as a common, daily event, it might fly. However I think you will have a rough time using such terms for an academic paper. Su or han breathing as well. Prefer the breath of the Ching or the Manchu's myself smirk

No offense intended, but you'll have to be very careful to use terminology which you can define and explain. Terms or a context which someone unfamiliar with them can make any sense of.

<<this is an aesthetic kata

A fascinating proposition. I think I can make a good case there is nothing but function to every single movement, and sequence? Nothing is remotely symbolic, or aesthetic per se. 100% funtional mechanics, and techniques, only to be used.

There are several distinct versions of Sanchin kata, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanchin

What specifically is your thesis grin ?


Edited by Ronin1966 (01/20/13 11:29 AM)

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