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#109040 - 02/23/05 12:22 PM Re: paralizing pp's
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote by Hedgehogey:

[QUOTE]Hello, people, this is a poke to the armpit! Poke to the armpit! It's ridiculous! It's on the level of a diving headbutt between someone's ass cheeks![/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif[/IMG]

I guess your only hope is to eat some REALLY spicy food to counter that PP attack!! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

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#109041 - 02/23/05 01:20 PM Re: paralizing pp's
Anonymous
Unregistered


First of all, any variance of a nukite is a STRIKE...not a POKE. Period. End of story. You can argue all you want, but that does not change the facts.

As to the strike being effective...I can break a 1" pine board with a variety of different nukite strikes...including the single finger variety. So...which do you think is tougher? The point in the arm pit or a 1" pine board?

Additionally, if any of you who are doubting the effectiveness of the nukite types of strikes had any level of skill in the arts that utilize it, then you would know that the extended fingers are not always necessarily what you are using to do the damage. Yet again we encounter a case where people are shooting off their mouths without any ammo (knowledge of what they are talking about) to back it up.

Lastly, there is a reason why I use the terms that I do. Because they mean something. If I were to mention the kua to a student of Taijiquan, Xingyiquan or Baguazhang, then they know exactly what I am talking about. However, if I simply refer to it as the pelvic crease, it looses alot of that particular meaning. Alot is lost in the translation and alot of misinformation is then passed on. One only need to look to the improperly translated tsuki (zuki) as being a punch. And uke as being a block. It is wrong and it is misinformation.

Michael

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#109042 - 02/23/05 10:58 PM Re: paralizing pp's
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]
I guess your only hope is to eat some REALLY spicy food to counter that PP attack!! [/QUOTE]

Or be the goatse man.

[QUOTE]
As to the strike being effective...I can break a 1" pine board with a variety of different nukite strikes...including the single finger variety. So...which do you think is tougher? The point in the arm pit or a 1" pine board?[/QUOTE]

Do you really expect me to explain to you the complete irrelevance of breaking pine boards to actual fighting?

[QUOTE] One only need to look to the improperly translated tsuki (zuki) as being a punch. And uke as being a block. It is wrong and it is misinformation.[/QUOTE]

Are those not punches and blocks? It's not like giving something a japanese name makes it more effective, nor is something more effective because it's from asia (shock!).

[QUOTE]
Additionally, if any of you who are doubting the effectiveness of the nukite types of strikes had any level of skill in the arts that utilize it, then you would know that the extended fingers are not always necessarily what you are using to do the damage. [/QUOTE]

"Anyone who criticizes our practices simply hasn't mastered the one fingered ass poke technique!". Nice unfalsifiable, ad hominem, psuedo-argument there.

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#109043 - 02/23/05 11:30 PM Re: paralizing pp's
Anonymous
Unregistered


Goatse. Why did you mention goatse? Dear God, why?

Actually, the argument isn't weak, it's true. Some people can't punch properly, but find they are good at aikido. Some poeple can't grapple and change from judo to boxing. All think the art they were terrible at is useless.

They are all wrong.

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#109044 - 02/23/05 11:35 PM Re: paralizing pp's
Anonymous
Unregistered


Poke/strike...hmmmm. I think it's just semantics.

No offense Michael, but in the words of one of my sensei, if you can break a 1" pine board with one finger, then more power to you. (PS: if I need someone to demonstrate a one-finger board break, I'll know who to ask - if u don't mind of course! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] )

Personally, I couldn't be bothered to condition my fingers to that extent (I still like to play the guitar every now and then, and need the feeling in my fingers for that). [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

After all, finger strikes (or "pokes" so Hedgehogey don't get all upset), are usually to soft targets, so I don't think finger conditioning is necessary.

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#109045 - 02/24/05 06:47 AM Re: paralizing pp's
Anonymous
Unregistered


eyrie:

Actually, I have had no ill effects at all from the iron palm training that I did. It came from the lineage of Ku Yu Cheong (Gu Ru Zhang) and is not at all like hitting a makiwara or the like. It emphasizes four main strikes (zhang, zhang bei, pi and hu zhua), but the fingers become quite strong as well. It is a gradual internal method with heavy use of dit da jow. So, there is no real damage to the hand or fingers if done correctly.

Now...as to the Arnis training that I did, that has caused some problems with the fingers due to less skilled training partners!

You are correct though that a nukite type of strike is generally done to a soft target...or at least softer targets. For instance, one would not do a nukite to someone's skull. But, a nukite is not a poke. It is a strike. It is called a spearhand for a reason.

Michael

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#109046 - 02/24/05 07:34 PM Re: paralizing pp's
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi there!
Just a word about this famed ippon nukite strike... I am not trained at all in it, my art makes no use of such technique so I'm not really conditioned. Still, I regularly do some fingertip-pressups just to strengthen my fingers and to add to the span of the move at the same time. The best I ever managed was two fingers, but it's way too hard for me to be freely usable. I usually use four (thumbs and forefingers) or six (idem plus midllefingers). One day, I was just curious of the pressure involved and calculated it (using the four-fingered pressup as my base). I have a few notions in ballistics since I shoot too. And the result amazed me: I theoreticly exert enough pressure per square-centimeter to stab through the soft parts of a human body! (aproximately one third of the force required to pierce or break the long bones, and one sixth of the force exerted by a standard 22LR bullet). It wouldn't be doable in combat at all, because my gap between the pressure being not sufficient to pierce muscle and the pressure being too much for my finger to resist the impact is very tight, and I would need to tune the power extremely finely otherwise I would either inflict no damage or break my finger - too risky and definitely impractical. But as I said, I am not trained AT ALL in such strikes! So imagine what someone who's experienced in the use of his finger as a weapon can do!

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#109047 - 02/24/05 08:15 PM Re: paralizing pp's
Anonymous
Unregistered


Michael,

I'm not disagreeing with you, but as far as I'm concerned, strike/poke is really just semantics - i.e. a really hard "poke" is a strike - yes? Or is there a really glaring difference?

I am familiar with Iron (Sand) Palm, but really couldn't be bothered with it. Yes, I have no doubt if practiced properly, it is quite formidable.

But I still reckon that the average MAist doesn't need to condition their hands to that extreme. Would you not agree that soft targets are generally susceptible to any sort of blunt force trauma?

But heck, if you can strike thru a soft target on the body and actually pierce it (like a 1" pine board), then more power to you.

My feeling is that such an extreme response would surely be quite unnecessary. Surely the shock of such a strike to affect the sympathetic nervous system would be sufficient to cause motor dysfunction or shutdown?

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#109048 - 02/24/05 09:38 PM Re: paralizing pp's
Anonymous
Unregistered


Wow, you guys have developed some rather strange and esoteric theories in regards to fighting.

Again, why don't we see NHB athletes using this lethal armpit po...err, "strike"? Perhaps because it's COMPLETELY IMPRACTICAL?

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#109049 - 02/24/05 10:46 PM Re: paralizing pp's
Anonymous
Unregistered


It maybe. But think of the clich, people changing position for a take down and evading a grab to be kneed?

But also, the UFC doesn't relate to any self defense situation I can think of.

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