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#109020 - 02/18/05 03:19 PM Re: paralizing pp's
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hedgehogey:

I am sorry you missed the last paragraph of my post where I covered that. Here it is again:

"To attack this point, use something like Nakadakaken (Nakadaka Ipponken), Keikoken, Nihon Nukite, Ippon Nukite, Boshiken or even Koken. I am not a fan of Koken as it provides for a much larger striking surface or area of target impact, but when delivered with Te no Omoi, proper Kiryoku and the resulting Chiru Nu Chan Chan...then it will surely have the desired result."

Sorry for the confusion.

Michael

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#109021 - 02/18/05 03:54 PM Re: paralizing pp's
Anonymous
Unregistered


Very nice!

excellent analysis. I also like how you giveth, and then in the last paragraph taketh away.

I generally approach pp's from a western medicine point of view. It's the training. is your background western med or eastern med or are you just extremely well independently studied?

Either way, solid work.

Page

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#109022 - 02/18/05 09:04 PM Re: paralizing pp's
Anonymous
Unregistered


Page:

Thanks...I think....

You said:
"excellent analysis. I also like how you giveth, and then in the last paragraph taketh away."

I am sorry to say that you lost me there...I am not sure what you mean.

My background is in Chinese Medicine as far as my approach to vital/pressure points. However, as I have tried to make clear to folks in the past, to truly understand the TCM approach, the majority of what you find in Western Medicine is there as well...just with an additional level of information in which to digest the paradigm. So, that has resulted in a huge reference library and no life.

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

Thank you for your comments. I am glad that they were of some help and/or interest.

Michael

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#109023 - 02/18/05 09:10 PM Re: paralizing pp's
Anonymous
Unregistered


Page:

I just saw in your bio that you are a doctor. Very nice. I am glad I did not make any stupid mistakes in my analysis of the MWM part. I am sure I would have heard about it.

Let me ask you a question in relation to the arm pit strike. "Urban myth" (my naming it that) has it that a hard enough strike to this target can cause the heart to stop. From a TCM point of view, I can "sort of" see this as a possibility. However, from the MWM side I cannot. Do you see this as a possibility? If so, could you break it down to me? Also, do you think this might be more of a possibility if it were done to the left side as opposed to the right?

Thanks Page...I look forward to your thoughts and comments.

Michael

ps - Are you a GP or have you specialized in a particular area?

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#109024 - 02/18/05 10:19 PM Re: paralizing pp's
Anonymous
Unregistered


All i'm familiar with is Ippon Nukite, and for those who don't know, ippon nukite is a POKE WITH THE FOREFINGER.

And frankly, if the most practical pressure point application you can find is poking me in the armpit with your finger, then you basically just threw the fight right there.

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#109025 - 02/18/05 11:12 PM Re: paralizing pp's
Anonymous
Unregistered


Michael,

I thought for a few minutes on the "urban myth" you mention. While it might be possible to stop the heart with a blow to the right axillary space, it is not probable.

Most cases (you hear of a few on the news every year) of children or adults having heart stoppage as a result of blunt force trauma to the thorax, occur from taking the force "dead center". If the trauma occurs in the fraction of a second during the QRS wave, the heart can stop.

As far as a strike to either axillary space, either one can be potentially deadly. Extreme cases have circumscribed detachment of the anterior coronary arteries usually combined with lacerations of vessel wall layers.

Other potential deadly side effects are:
Tension pneumothoracis,Hemothoracis, ruptured tracheobronchial tree, ruptured thoracic aorta, myocardial tearing, cardiac tamponade, pulmonary contusions. These are a few. I'm sure a medline search would reveal others.

So, the short answer is, I don't really see stopping an opponents heart with an axillary strike. But what the hell, you might kill him anyway.

Hedghogey: If you think that an opponent who uses ippon nukite to the axilla is throwing the fight, I would suggest that you have never seen one done properly. Even when done lighty, an experienced practitioner will give you far more than a tickle.

Lastly Michael to answer your other question. I'm Board Certified in Emergency Medicine, Tropical Medicine(Infectious Disease) and Public Health.

I am fascinated by TCM and would one day like to try to incorporate it into Western Medicine. I will look forward to sharing information with you in the future, and learning from your unique perspective.

Page

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#109026 - 02/21/05 03:22 AM Re: paralizing pp's
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by meijin:
Hedgehogey:

I am sorry you missed the last paragraph of my post where I covered that. Here it is again:

"To attack this point, use something like Nakadakaken (Nakadaka Ipponken), Keikoken, Nihon Nukite, Ippon Nukite, Boshiken or even Koken. I am not a fan of Koken as it provides for a much larger striking surface or area of target impact, but when delivered with Te no Omoi, proper Kiryoku and the resulting Chiru Nu Chan Chan...then it will surely have the desired result."

Sorry for the confusion.

Michael
[/QUOTE]

Very impressive stuff! Can i ask where you learned that (besides medicine) and what style you train in?

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#109027 - 02/21/05 10:18 PM Re: paralizing pp's
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello, people, this is a poke to the armpit! Poke to the armpit! It's ridiculous! It's on the level of a diving headbutt between someone's ass cheeks!

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#109028 - 02/22/05 05:39 PM Re: paralizing pp's
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hedgehogey:

Your ignorance of the topic at hand just does not cease to amaze me.

First of all, a nukite strike of any type is just that...a strike. It is not a "poke" with a finger or anything else.

Besides me words, which you certainly do not have to believe in any way, shape or form, you now have the comments of a licensed physician that happens to also be a martial artist. They confirm what I have to say. Yet, you wish to keep your mind closed and make stupid comments. Where is your contribution on anything to do with the topic at hand? Or anything in this forum?

Michael

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#109029 - 02/22/05 05:45 PM Re: paralizing pp's
Anonymous
Unregistered


To Kempoman and laf:

Hedgehogey said:
"Hello, people, this is a poke to the armpit! Poke to the armpit! It's ridiculous! It's on the level of a diving headbutt between someone's ass cheeks!"

Come on guys...is this the type of discourse we are looking for here? I don't mind someone stating their disagreement with what someone else on the forum has to say...even if they are going to disagree with me. However, it is not too much to ask that someone present some sort of reasonably logical arguement to rebut what is said. Where is this being done? It would seem that the only purpose that this indivdual has is to try and tear down what others have to say with no arguement to present other than to disagree and make ignorant comments. I have done a search for all of the posts belonging to this person and can find next to nothing where they have added anything constructive to any discussion. Speaking for myself personally, I'd like to know how your guidelines affect this type of behavior. Just ignore him totally for the total waste of time that he has proven himself to be or are there options?

Thanks,

Michael

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