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#108934 - 01/12/05 02:42 PM Re: acupuncture charts
Unregistered a prior exchange that I had with you under the thread "Pressure points for newbies", you made the following comment:

"To clear up some comments Vital points and Pressure points are not the same. Some times a PP will be locate at a vital point but there are seprate. PP refer to the accpuncture points of the meridains. Vital points include places where organs are not protected or the chance of a muscle tear or tendion sepration is possable."

To which I made the following reply:

"I am sorry, but I really have to disagree with you. You are trying to "American-ize" words from other languages and make them fit into your view of vital points and pressure points. It is a matter of what you prefer and what you mean...not some hard and fast rule where it has to be one or the other and they are not interchangable.

If we look to the Japanese for a translation of kyusho, we get "vitals, tender spot, secret, key".

If we look at the Keiraku Chiryo (meridian therapy) or any other form of Japanese ryoho (healing methods), they use the term tsubo for the points...again meaning a vital point when translated.

In Zhongyao (traditional Chinese medicine) or Zhenjiu (acupuncture) that are based on the theories and principles of the jingluo (channels and collaterals), the points are called xue or "cavity".

In the Korean methods of Keupso or Hyel Do Sul (Hyol Do Sool), the keupsoh are translated as a vital point. The same is true in Chimsool (acupuncture) and Chiahosool (accupressure)...the hyel/hyol (points) lay on the Kyong Rak (Jeonggyong 12 Maeks and Kigyong 8 Maeks).

If we look to the Indian based arts of Kalarippayattu and Varma Ati, they utilize marmmam or marma...vital points. Varma Ati literally translated is vital point striking...and we are talking about points on the body that lay on nardi or energy channels that allow us access to the internal energetic system of the body. The same is true of the various Ayurvedic healing traditions. may draw a distinction for yourself that there is a difference between vital points and pressure points and what each means...but that is not what is borne out through research."

I'll go check the thread again, but after I made this post I never saw a response from you on the topic. Sorry if I missed it...but perhaps you will take this opportunity to enlighten me as to your evidence to the contrary.

I would also disagree that the opinion on this is based on your instructor's path. I firmly believe that the thoughts, beliefs and opinons of one's instructor can shape yours. However, I am a firm believer in the concept of Shu Ha Ri...meaning that (at my instructor's request) I question anything that he has to say and I expound upon it whenever possible through my own research and training. Sometimes to even discover that my instructor was wrong or mistaken about something.

Anyway, I look forward to your information on the difference between vital points and pressure points as you have described in the quote I gave above.

#108935 - 01/12/05 03:11 PM Re: acupuncture charts


The table that you reference off of Victor Smith's site comes from the Bubishi and references what are called shichen points. Shichen is a Chinese measurement of time that encompasses two hours with a 24 hour day cycle being broken up into 12 shichen periods. Using the theory of qi flow in Zhongyaoxue (Traditional Chinese Medicine or TCM), qi flow is more "dominant" in different meridian systems during each of the 12 shichen. The points listed there are reportedly ones that can kill someone during that particular shichen period. I say reportedly because no one that I know has ever proven this to be the case...for obvious reasons. Additionally, I have seen no one explain why it is that these are the points to use during that shichen or how to use them (independently or in conjunction with one another).

For several years I have been compiling a very detailed analysis of the Bubishi that I hope to one day self-publish. If only my real job would slow down long enough to allow me to do so.

Anyway, I hope that was of some help to you. aware that the 36 vital points as listed in parts of McCarthy's translation of the Bubishi are not a part of the original, but his importing of them from other Chinese sources. Read what McCarthy writes carefully as this is often glossed over. For more info on the set of 36 vital points, do some research into Feng Yiyuan.

#108936 - 01/13/05 07:24 AM Re: acupuncture charts

It explains some but its very confusing with all those terms its going to take me more then simply read your response but ill have to find out what certain words mean but that ok

#108937 - 01/14/05 09:11 AM Re: acupuncture charts


Sorry...I thought I define all of the words I was using. Which ones are giving you a hard time?

BTW...Feng Yiyuan is a person.

#108938 - 01/16/05 07:37 PM Re: acupuncture charts

well the following i dont understand qi , shichen

#108939 - 01/17/05 12:02 PM Re: acupuncture charts


Well, qi is the life force energy of the body....

As to the shichen, I defined it in my post:

"Shichen is a Chinese measurement of time that encompasses two hours with a 24 hour day cycle being broken up into 12 shichen periods."

If you don't understand that, let me know and I can try a different approach.


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