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#108648 - 10/14/04 08:59 PM Re: Kata Kin Ken (Golden Fist)
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
Just a small point, there is a long tradition in many arts charging whatever the limit is worth.

For example its reported Usheiba M. paid a fortue or each Daito Ryu Aiki Jutsu technique he studied and later based his Aikido on.

Charging for instruction isn't good or bad, its really between the buyer and seller, especially if what is being offered is of value.

Personally I've paid thousands of dollars for some of the forms I've studied. And as the instructor was great, it was worth every penny. I wanted to learn something about the Chinese arts, and my instructor was and is a professional, and shared freely with me.

Yep he charged, and I paid it for years, but the experience and knowledge was worth every penny, to me.

On the other hand I don't charge anything. But I've never shared those forms either. Not because I'm stingy, it's just none of the students were willing to pay the price in time training.

For I didn't pay just cash, instead also added years and hundreds of hours work to learn.

So if charges exist, its up to the buyer to know what they're getting is worthy or not.

As for the Golden Fist dvd, if that's what you want and you can't train with them personally, that's your only choice, unless you go to a Pai Lum instructor and train for many, many years till you get to the point to study Golden Fist there.

Of course their use and study of Golden Fist, based on long study of their art will be vastly different from the upcoming dvd too.

Not good, or bad, just vastly different.

Something to chew on,

Victor Smith
bushi no te isshinryu

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#108649 - 12/06/04 11:19 PM Re: Kata Kin Ken (Golden Fist)
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, a friend of mine paid out the big cash for this DVD. She received it today, and invited me over to watch it.

I will not take any cheep shots or make any comments about techniques or individuals.

All I will say is that Daniel K. Pai is rolling over in his grave.

[This message has been edited by Kuma (edited 12-07-2004).]

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#108650 - 12/11/04 01:49 PM Re: Kata Kin Ken (Golden Fist)
Anonymous
Unregistered


I do not know much about Daniel Pai. I have been reading this thread for some time now and decided to buy the DVD. I was not sure what to expect from the mixed posts here, but it was enough to intrigue me.

I can honestly say, without any bias, this appears to be the most comprehensive martial arts video I have ever seen! The best part about it is that if you are in the mood to work on striking, there is almost an hour of the kata being broken down, just for striking. I counted...over 40 knockouts! If you are in the mood for grappling...it is there, energy disruptions...it is there, Kiai Jitsu...there.

Never before have I seen something like this. Definately impressed with everything from presentation to packaging. A professional job!

Cheers!

FB

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#108651 - 12/12/04 10:34 AM Re: Kata Kin Ken (Golden Fist)
kempocos Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 516
Loc: flemington,nj,usa
Yeah the info is there , now how much will really work? are those KO going to work against a resisting attacker, 99% of light touch KO's will not. KIAI JUTSU is something I do not have any faith in.

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#108652 - 12/13/04 10:43 AM Re: Kata Kin Ken (Golden Fist)
Anonymous
Unregistered


After watching this 2 disk set over the weekend, and looking at all the videos/DVD's on my shelf, this is the most complete breakdown of any kata that I have ever seen.

Has anyone out there even heard of 1 kata being broken down on any video /DVD in this manner? I know some people have different levels of tapes of their techniques (Costs range anywhere from $30-$99/tape), but I own about 200 videos. None of them come close to the quality of information that I see on this set.

Is it a lot of money? It all depends on how you look at it. 4 instructors each teaching for approx 50 min to 1 hour. Individually the cost /tape would be around $40. This was a professional job, not some tape copied in someone's basement. I have invested a lot of time and $ in my training. Notice the key word...INVESTMENT...that is all it is...an investment in my personal search. Sitting around at home or with only my small circle of fellow martial artists can become stagnent at times. I can afford it. I took the chance. I feel that I got my money's worth and more. If you cannot afford the price...then how can you even say it is too expensive? Too expensive compared to what?

I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas (or whatever holiday you celebrate) and Happy New Year!

FB

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#108653 - 12/13/04 11:07 AM Re: Kata Kin Ken (Golden Fist)
Anonymous
Unregistered


I agree completely. This is a model for anyone who wants to know how to look at bunkai and this DVD sets a new standard of excellence on how to make a kata DVD.

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#108654 - 12/14/04 09:50 AM Re: Kata Kin Ken (Golden Fist)
kempocos Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 516
Loc: flemington,nj,usa
OK well produced, any teen with a digital camcorder and a computer can edit down a pro job now a days, My kids and friends do all the time. The techniques need to be vaild, that is the deciding part how many techniques are valid. Take them and with a none compliant partner try them and then comment on the video .

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#108655 - 12/14/04 10:25 AM Re: Kata Kin Ken (Golden Fist)
Anonymous
Unregistered


Kempocos,

I do not agree. Martial Arts Instructional Videos are just that...INSTRUCTIONAL.

Sports teams go through the plays during practice and play simulated games in preseason and practice to get the mindset and muscle memory necessary to complete the play, and to prepare them as best that they can for real situations.

I am an accountant by trade. I take accounting courses all the time on tax law, etc. These are the tools of my trade. Do I use them all the time? No. It depends on the situation and how the individual or company need their files to get the most benefits within the guidelines of the law.

Any instructional seminar, manual, or video (in any field), is just that...instructional. If it was cage fighting, UFC, NHB and such, then it would have said so. I own BJJ videos, Dillman Videos, Dog Brothers, Dan Inosanto, and more. They are instructional and attempt to teach techniques that it is then up to the individual to practice them to make them second nature.

I guess the question that should be posed to you would be...How much real fighting experience do you have and do you get in fights on a regular basis?

Cheers!

FB

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#108656 - 12/14/04 10:54 AM Re: Kata Kin Ken (Golden Fist)
Anonymous
Unregistered


The other question, an none of this should be taken the wrong way,

What contributions to the martial arts have you made?

You make comments and suggestions, are they based on real experience, theory, a combination of the two?

Are your comments based on things that you would like to see?

cheers!

FB

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#108657 - 12/14/04 03:18 PM Re: Kata Kin Ken (Golden Fist)
kempocos Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 516
Loc: flemington,nj,usa
FB the only contrbution I make is to make sure those I train with do not rely on information that is flawed. Telling folks that the KIAI will effected an attacker is wrong, selling Light Touch KO as anything but a neat palor trick to prove concepts is wrong. Telling folks that size and stentgh does not matter is wrong as it determines what to use.
I have said it before I am in NJ and will offer myself to anyone who can effect my CHI , stop my attack with a Kiai or No Touch technique. Or attempt a Light Touch KO while sparring. Some have tried and thier out is " Well you train in KYUSHO/ TUITE and therefore not effected like others" just PM me. And yes I have been to Mark Kline ( prior to joining KI) seminars and Dillman seminars. I am curreently a member of DRAGON SOCIETY run by Tom Muncy and Rick Moneymaker and was a student of a Sieyu Oyatas senior student who was one of the few who brought him to the US. I have seen many claims such as TUITE being a uniquly HOGAN word, funny I learned it from Oyata.

SO pm me and prove me wrong , as I am here to learn and not spread rumors.

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