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#108246 - 09/17/03 02:57 AM Dead Heads
Doughnut Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 197
Loc: Mid-west, U.S.A
Why are some people immune to most all P.P attacks?

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#108247 - 09/17/03 06:02 AM Re: Dead Heads
kempo_jujitsu Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 1914
Loc: illinois, usa
it could be that you are not activating the points correctly.
they may have an energy imbalance...

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#108248 - 09/17/03 08:13 AM Re: Dead Heads
York Karate Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 132
Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Frankly I have never meet anyone that no points work on
As stated it could be they have a major energy imbalance or blockage, but this would tend to affect only specific areas.

They could be using drugs or other intoxicates that affect specific body regions

You may not be reading the body type and working against yourself. For example they could be a metal person and you are not using the correct attack against their weakness.

You may not be striking hard enough, I donít mean blasting them, but some people do error on the side of caution.

But my guess is as stated it could well be you are not using the right angle and direction, or have correct intent. Donít under estimate either of these.

I canít speak about angle and direction but intent effects us all . I had a recent case at a seminar where a senior martial artist said that PP donít work on him, he even made several high ranking PP people I know who couldnít effect him. Sure enough when I tried no reaction. I went off to assist some others on the technique I was teaching, but in the back of my mind I was reply what happened. I knew the points work and I knew I had correct angle and direction, the issue was intent, I felt since the others hadnít made it work I couldnít. I immediately went back to him and bang they worked Ė every one I tired. Now this person is a regular at out seminars and Kyusho program.

So look to angle and direction and intent first my guess is this will solve your problem

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#108249 - 09/17/03 02:34 PM Re: Dead Heads
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have a student who seems to be imune to pressure points. I do not teach these myself as I do not have enough knowledge of them. This student is also immune to many locks, such as wrist locks and armbars.
It has been suggested that this could be due in part to the fact that he practised tai chi for several years before starting karate and still does.
What do those of you experienced in pressure points and or tai chi think of this?
Sharon

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#108250 - 09/17/03 02:50 PM Re: Dead Heads
Kempoman Offline
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Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
Sharon,

You bring up a very good point. I notice after eight years of Xingyiquan (another internal martial art like taijiquan) the most points and locks don;t have much of an effect on me either.

The internal arts improve body functions (qi?) and strengthen the tendons and ligaments. Also, there is an overlooked area of TCM dealing with the extraordinary vessles. These are not meridians and they have different functions than meridians.
They act as a reservior system and will help distribute extra energy added into the system and quickly rebalance the body. All of the internal arts (taijiquan, xingyiquan, and baguazhang) train these vessels over time.

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#108251 - 09/18/03 11:48 PM Re: Dead Heads
Doughnut Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 197
Loc: Mid-west, U.S.A
[QUOTE]Originally posted by wadowoman:
I have a student who seems to be imune to pressure points. I do not teach these myself as I do not have enough knowledge of them. This student is also immune to many locks, such as wrist locks and armbars.
It has been suggested that this could be due in part to the fact that he practised tai chi for several years before starting karate and still does.
What do those of you experienced in pressure points and or tai chi think of this?
Sharon
[/QUOTE]

THATS IT! The reason I ask is that I am exactly like Sharron's student. A master I was working with at a seminar said that as a result of my "problem" I would not be able to "lift a spoon by the time your forty". Talk about scary.
I have studied Tai Chi only a bit, and long after this phenomenon started to manifest itself. So I am not sure if enternal energy is the reason, intresting idea though.

Regarding Other dead-heads I find that wrestlers can delay the effects of pp for quite some time after they are deliverd again
Why? Muscleclature? Will?


[This message has been edited by Doughnut (edited 09-18-2003).]

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#108252 - 09/19/03 07:32 AM Re: Dead Heads
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doughnut:

"Regarding Other dead-heads I find that wrestlers can delay the effects of pp for quite some time after they are deliverd again
Why? Muscleclature? Will?"


Hi Doughnut

I don't believe that wrestlers are immune to PP or can delay the reactions, it's just that they're used to pain.

After MA's went through the 70's, & 80's where it developed into some kind of flowerery sport MA's forgot what they were doing. ie: a MA.

All of sudden someone comes along and starts hitting them on sensitive parts of their bodies. (Chi, Meridians whatever you want to call it) It hurt because they weren't used to it. Wrestlers, Judokas, etc train for pain. They are used to it and understand it. Karateka's etc just weren't used to it.

That's still the case these days, although more MA's are getting back to dealing with some pain.

JohnL

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#108253 - 09/19/03 08:34 AM Re: Dead Heads
kempocos Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 516
Loc: flemington,nj,usa
I would look at the body type issue. Also what points are you attacking, perhaps there maybe setup points required for the body type. Example to try would be instead of and attack like fire burns metal. Try fire than a wood to feed it then a water to dump the energy. Like anything PP are not an exact science they need adjustment according to person. Also keep in mind that the body type desriptions are based on CHINESE and they may be harder to pinpoint on other nationalities (sp?).

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#108254 - 09/19/03 09:04 AM Re: Dead Heads
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
Hi kempocos
A couple of notes on the points you make

"I would look at the body type issue."

Are you suggesting that before you thump someone you have to assess their body type.

"Also what points are you attacking, perhaps there maybe setup points required for the body type. Example to try would be instead of and attack like fire burns metal. Try fire than a wood to feed it then a water to dump the energy."

This is complete overanalysis. If you have to do all this when under the stress of an actual confrontation, you're going to get a thumping.

"Like anything PP are not an exact science they need adjustment according to person."

All that means is that it's ineffective.

"Also keep in mind that the body type desriptions are based on CHINESE and they may be harder to pinpoint on other nationalities"

So you're now suggesting that you have to adapt your MA according to what nationality your opponent is.

This is even more evidence that the over analysis of PP is making them wholly unuseable in a MA context.

JohnL

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#108255 - 09/19/03 11:22 AM Re: Dead Heads
kempocos Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 516
Loc: flemington,nj,usa
JohnL -

"Are you suggesting that before you thump someone you have to assess their body type."

Well at some point you have to determine who you are fighting and how best to hurt them. This is often during the first few seconds.

"This is complete overanalysis. If you have to do all this when under the stress of an actual confrontation, you're going to get a thumping"

If you have tried a PP and it did not work, you have two choices, know what to try next or get thumped. I would rather try something else. This one will need to work.

" All that means is that it's ineffective. "

No that means it takes an understanding of how they work to make them effective.

"So you're now suggesting that you have to adapt your MA according to what nationality your opponent is.

This is even more evidence that the over analysis of PP is making them wholly unuseable in a MA context."

No what I am saying is if you are going to look at body types as to why a PP did not work, know what you are looking at. Tramslation is a factor when judgeing what a text ment to say. Example : The Western view of an ELEMENT is a material substance. The Chinese view is power or phase of power.

I think that KYOSHO (pp striking) needs to be used with TUITE ( joint manipulation) to make it most effective. There is alot of hype that leads one to believe that to learn a few point locations is all there is. There are things that go with it to make it work YIN YANG , 5 ELEMENT , STRIKE DIRECTION, SETUP POINTS ETC. This is why this training is often reverved for those you have a DAN ranking and already have a good arsenal of techniques. The information can explain why techniques work , or how to make them more effective.

AS ALWAYS IMHO

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