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#108153 - 06/10/03 03:51 PM HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Judokid Offline
Member

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 184
PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!I love learning the Martial Arts. Though now I am concentrating on Judo, I want to work on many different skills, including pressure points, for use in REAL self- defense situations. If possible, I would like to do so without having to buy everything, especially since I already did and I have a limited income. Can anyone PLEASE give me the name of good web sites that will teach me more than my current, basic knowledge of pressure points(location, effects, tutorials, etc.) for Free? Where can I find FREE charts that detail which points are lethal and which ones are just painful? I once found such a site, but now whenever I try to find it again, I am bombarded by links for books, acupuncturist, and Dillman seminar links. PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!!!!! Thanks in advance!!

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#108154 - 06/10/03 04:27 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
My Advice

Pay for the seminars or find a qualified instructor. Tell me where you are and I will be glad to recommend one in your area. Many are willing to work with restictive budgets for those who truly wish to learn. Free e-books are about as valuable as what you pay for them.

We have all put in out dues, paid out monies and went thru a ton of pain (and sometimes unconciousness to get where we are). You sound young, slow down and master the basic techniques, then get some training from a good instructor.


(off soap box now)

Scott

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#108155 - 06/12/03 11:03 AM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
kempocos Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 516
Loc: flemington,nj,usa
I agree SLOW DOWN, this is not sport karate it can and will cause sever results. There is more than the points,there is the 5 element and yin yang theory that makes the point work. The only way is to attend classes/seminars. The books / charts will only help if you are taking hands-on training.
What books/videos/charts do you have I see the DILLMANS ones around however the KNOCKOUTS seems to be his focus and IMHO they are good to demo with willing UKE'S, however in a real fight very hard to use. WWW.DRAGONSOCIETY.COM has a great book called "50 techniques" that breaksdown effective moves and explains all the things that make it work it might help some.
Remember points do not work the same on all people. Ever watch " HOWARD STERN" They had a guy called himself DR ORGASIM, He claimed he could make women get off by touching points. Did not work on the few women he tried. His name is Mark Kline and is a DILLMAN 7TH DEGREE he knows the points and does great knockouts , My point is the preassure points are not the total package.
KEMPOMAN said " You sound young, slow down and master the basic techniques, then get some training from a good instructor."
Take this advice he speaks the truth and I agree 1000000%.

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#108156 - 06/13/03 07:12 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Judokid Offline
Member

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 184
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kempoman:
My Advice

Pay for the seminars or find a qualified instructor. Tell me where you are and I will be glad to recommend one in your area. Many are willing to work with restictive budgets for those who truly wish to learn. Free e-books are about as valuable as what you pay for them.

We have all put in out dues, paid out monies and went thru a ton of pain (and sometimes unconciousness to get where we are). You sound young, slow down and master the basic techniques, then get some training from a good instructor.


(off soap box now)

Scott
[/QUOTE]

Yes, you were correct, Kempoman- I am young. Hwever, I do take the martial arts more seriously than many adults. You see, i have had close calls with huge kids who wanted to pick a fights with me. Nearly all the kids in my grade are bigger, stronger, and more experienced fighters. I am a yer younger than most of tese kids, and they have no reason to fear a weakling like me; even though I weight train, they are nearly all stronger than me. One kid that i am particularly sure I will end up having to tangle with is so tall that i could definitely not punch him in the head in a fight, and he is an experienced boxer I am afraid of fighting, and many times i have been beaten up, then hated myself for not hitting back due to my fear of getting hit and my lack of experience in fighting. I have never won a fight, and enrolling in a reality- based program is not a possibility. However, I plan on wrestling in High School, and studying boxing and aiki-jujutsu next year in addition to my Judo. i think that the mental issues of combat are more pressing for me. Fear paralyses me. How can i train myself to use adrenalin to my advantage, instread of it becoming my enemy? I am in a vicious cycle: every time i promise myself that next time, when a kid tries to beat me up tha,t i will defend myself, I don't when the time comes. Please Help me, and sorry if this is too long.

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#108157 - 06/16/03 09:37 AM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
Judokid,

E-mail me privately. I will give you some techs that you can use that will help.

SCott

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#108158 - 06/17/03 07:56 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Judokid Offline
Member

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 184
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kempoman:
Judokid,

E-mail me privately. I will give you some techs that you can use that will help.

SCott
[/QUOTE]

Thank you so much for the offer!!! Much appreciated. However, I am EXTREMELY limited on time. Please cut and paste the info into the forum so that we can all benefit!!!!!!!When I have a few spare seconds, I'll look for the info on the forum. Thanks again, don't mean to be impolite!!

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#108159 - 06/17/03 09:45 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Ender Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 2253
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
The answer to all of your problems is twofold:

1) Train seriously
2) Have the Patience and Endurance to accomplish and forever continue #1

And remember, you (like myself, a 16 year old) are still maturing. You may be a weakling now, but you wont be forever. I was heavily picked on in my younger years, and then I got bigger and started in various martial arts. Now I am very confident in my ability.

Everybody feels fear before a fight, your in the "fight or flight" state of mind, and this is a natural response. What you will learn to control (through training) is how you react to your fear, and eventually the fear will be replaced by a calm clarity and acceptance of dangerous situations. You will find a confidence in yourself you probably didn't know you could have.

But this will only come if you follow the two instructions stated above.

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#108160 - 06/17/03 09:48 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Ender Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 2253
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
I also offer any adivce privately, my e-mail is die_for_your_government889@hotmail.com

but, if this is not convenient for you, I can continue to post it on this forum.

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#108161 - 06/19/03 05:27 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Judokid Offline
Member

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 184
Thanks, everyone for the help so far!!!!

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#108162 - 06/22/03 01:06 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
Judo kid. A quick lesson. Try to focous on a few vital points.
1.Groin. Need I say more?
2.Vegas nerve. Runs parallel to the carotid artery. Strike here with your forearm or knife edge and you will stun if not knock out your opponent.
3.Rear gaglion nerve.Back of the neck. A good forarm shot here will knock out your opponent
4.Throat. Dangerous but no weight lifter I know has been able to strengthen this area.
In the future my web site will cover these techniques. Please be patient It's new. Ed www.lonewolfjujutsu.com

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#108163 - 06/22/03 01:49 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
York Karate Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 132
Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Yes need to say a lot more about the gorin, while the myth is this is an easy place to kick it isn't, one need only watch every man's reaction to see this. However SP 10 (at the knee) or SP 11 (mid thigh) are much better traget areas, and SP 11 opems right up when someone thinks you are going for the groin.

Try kicking someone in the groin and see for yourself a how difficult it is b that SP 11 is opened up.

More on GB 20 later

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#108164 - 06/22/03 11:23 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
Try this, punch him in the face first and then kick him in the groin. That will work. The problem is not the target, but your telegraphed move. The groin is VERY easy to attack. In a couple of days I will have an example on my web site. Check out what I mean. There are many different ways to attack vital strike points besides the obvious.Ed www.lonewolfjujutsu.com

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#108165 - 06/23/03 01:32 AM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
joesixpack Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 2282
Loc: Australia
It's not a telegraphed move - it's instinct - anyway, I think it's easy to hit, if it isn't their legs are very vulnerable and are immoble (ala zenkutsu dachi)

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#108166 - 06/23/03 05:59 AM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
York Karate Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 132
Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Can you kick the groin; well of course you can with luck.
So I’ll smash his face them groin kick him isn’t a viable answer to the difficultly associated with groin kicks. As said it is natural instinctive to protect this region, however in protecting it we open up other and even better targets like SP11. SP 11 is on the thigh about mid way between the knee and crease – the method of activation is a hit (so a kick works) the angle and direction is straight through and it turns out (releases) the knee and places all the weight on the ankle.

SP 10 is just off the knee in a tender depression on the bulge of the vastus medialis muscle. This again is a great kick target 45 degrees down and in Locks knee, turns leg out, pops ankle

Don’t focus on the groin tale the points natural response provide you and biomechanics and TCM say will provide maximum effect .

I do agree distraction is always a good thing but if you can smash him in the face use you knowledge of PP and make sure that strike ends the fight

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#108167 - 06/23/03 10:47 AM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
You must be one big mike tyson mother. I didn't know that you could drop a person with one punch. You must have balls of steel too. Well good for you. I hope you are never REALLY tested. But you did grasp my concept about distraction.
By the way what is all this sp shit. Does that mean sun protection. We don't use that in my style. Just curious so I can follow better what you are explaining. Ed

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#108168 - 06/23/03 01:29 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
York Karate Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 132
Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Ed
This is the pressure point section so I assumed you knew but lets cover it as an overview

Most people understand vital points – like the eyes for example. Pressure points or Kyusho are less known points on the body. Pressure points are used in the healing art of acupuncture to restore health. In Karate-Jitsu or Kyusho these same pressure points are touched, hit or rubbed to make techniques effective for fighting and self-defence.

What is a pressure point? A pressure point is a place on the body where a signal or message can be entered directly into the nervous system. Muscle and bone cannot feel pain, only nerves can feel pain. While blunt force trauma can be effective the reason is a message sent to the nervous system. The problem with blunt force trauma is not only does it require size and strength it also results in damage – bruises, broken bones and cuts. This damage, if severe enough, can cause permanent injury it also places us at risk because of the chance of infection resulting from exposure to open wounds such as cuts.

Pressure Points are not style specific; rather they enhance and can be applied to any art. As Professor Wally Jay states “Pressure point knowledge will enhance any martial arts style”

SP means Spleen, you will find people who study pressure points use the terms from TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) this gives us a common language to use and when I for example say SP11 people would know the location of the point I was discussing

Yes I have dropped many people with a single strike using pressure points – they are the key to making may based art effective.

No my balls aren’t made of steel, but I have never been kick there in several years of bouncing and many years fighting in tournaments. Beside as I said not only is it instinctive to protect this area the correct angle and direction for a groin kick also make it difficult.

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#108169 - 06/23/03 04:24 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
Ed,

This is the pressure point forum. Go peddle SCARS somewhere else.

Feel free to discuss pressure point here ad nauseum.

Scott

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#108170 - 06/29/03 05:17 AM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
YK - as a newcomer to kyusho I found your last post particular informative, thank you [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Budo

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#108171 - 07/02/03 04:00 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
York Karate Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 132
Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Glad you found it helpfull, it is all about sharing!

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#108172 - 07/05/03 08:41 AM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Ender Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 2253
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
I agree, I've dropped opponents with a single strike before, and only a few times using pressure point strategy.

Then again, most people dont get up from an eye drive or a palm strike to the forehead/temple.

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#108173 - 07/05/03 10:44 AM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
York Karate Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 132
Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Ender,

Glad to hear you have enough blunt force to drop people with a single punch, good for you.

I weight in at around 250 and am in good shape for a 50 year old man who has been training in one way or another for 25 years and I would be hard pressed to pull that off, nor am I willing to poke someone in the eye but while I have been in many street fights and was a bouncer in a bar for several years I have never found myself in a situation where I felt my life was threatened and thus would feel justified in poking someone’s eyes out.


With 361 regular points on the body with an area of activation the size of a .25$ piece the question is not can I hit a pressure point, but rather making sure you hit it the correct way – using the right method of activation, angle and direction.

So in respect to strikes to the forehead my guess is you are hitting pressure points and at the correct angle and direction out of luck and just don’t know it. The GB cluster on the temple/forehead is an easy KO if done correctly because there are 3 points ”clustered” here.

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#108174 - 07/17/03 10:04 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Ender Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 2253
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Blunt force nothing! It's all about where you strike and how!

You jab an eye, squeeze and twist a guys twig and berries, or smash the floating ribs, and the fight is over.

Who the hell wastes time with a haymaker to the nose?

Not I, said the fly.

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#108175 - 09/08/03 03:32 AM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
darkside Offline
Stranger

Registered: 09/08/03
Posts: 2
I am 20 years old....I was very impatient in my quest to learn...when I was younger i saw the movie blood psort, and since then dim mak has fascinated me as well. You can find what you are looking for online, for free. But I will tell you, it will still take a long time, and requires much maturity and respect for the art form....if you are in it jsut to understand how to bring down an enemy with one finger, then dont continue...there is much to take into concideration. 1. it can be lethal 2. these vital points were originally used in medicine and healing and were not intended for harm 3. there are different beliefs and methods to go about them, from Us military, basic functions of pressur epoints, to deep blief systems including ki channels and meridians along with vulnerability at different times of day....like they said above, do not rush. I found that mastering the virtue of patience, and finding your own philosophy will aid you. I couldnt find a school of religion that encompassed wholly what I believe....so I devised my own meditation methods, and idea of divinity, and then, the techniques became more understood to me, and the responsibility that comes with the power of learning these techniques became apparent....slow it down a notch

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#108176 - 09/08/03 08:28 AM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ender:
Blunt force nothing! It's all about where you strike and how!

You jab an eye, squeeze and twist a guys twig and berries, or smash the floating ribs, and the fight is over.

Who the hell wastes time with a haymaker to the nose?

Not I, said the fly.
[/QUOTE]

And you also leap mountains at a single bound [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

JohnL

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#108177 - 09/10/03 07:32 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
kempo_jujitsu Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 1914
Loc: illinois, usa
i think it should be mentioned that at least where pressure points are concerned...hitting or kicking in an upward direction is NOT the correct angle for hitting the pressure points of the groin. all that does is "squash the family jewels" effective and painful yes, but also possibly considered overkill or unnessecary in the eyes of the law. try punching in and down at a 45 degree angle at the base of the genitals (in front/on top) and see the reaction you get...you might be surprised.
but you dont have to hit directly at that point, that general area "ki center" as it is sometimes called is the area between the genitals and the knot of your belt. just strike or kick there either straight in or down and in at a 45 degree angle.

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#108178 - 09/18/03 01:06 AM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
BaiginLong Offline
Member

Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 56
hmmm I'm big on Chinese medicine but I've never heard of these Americanized abbreviations
Oh heh forgot to mention I'm new here

But anyways
Yeah I've been studying martial arts for a long time and it sounds to me (no offence) that YorkKarate learned some McDojo martial arts. Honestly, those points can't be scientifically deduced. I believe very firmly in the old old school teachings of martial arts and mastery of chi. The lines of energy are different for each person and though they may generally lie azround the same area there are varying effects. There is no surefire pressure point you can use against someone. at most I can say that there's a 85% chance of it working each time. However the more experienced you are and the more you've learned about chi you can throw away the diagrams and "divine" the points on your own. I say divine because it evuidently seems way too mystical for the majority western peoples to realize and truly appreciate the foundations of Oriental medicine and martial arts. Nowe I do not mean to insult anyone here. Evidently there are some impressive modern martial artists out there but they will always be diluted from the old world apprenticeship training and techniques.
(gets off soap box now)

also advice for the little guy [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]
Pressure points are only good if your fingers are really deft and precise. And it takes too long to get yourself to adjust to making extremely precise strikes consistently.
for your situation I would suggest learning how to attack in terms of areas
in less technical terms than YorkKarate I'll say this
the knees and thighs are good areas yes (make it hard for him to stand baby)
also go for kidneys and solar plexis (right under the ribs in the center)
if you know your striking techniques then try knocking the air out of his lungs
if you're small then try using it to your advantage and work on dodging and speed
manipulate his centers of gravity and movement (torso, shoulders)
if you can't hit his head well Adam's apple may be your friend

if you're in a close and you don't want to be lift your leg plant your foot at his hips and shove away

otherwise, try to get close in and use elbows and knees since if he's tall and has long limbs he'll prefer range

in other words you'll be better off with thai boxing in this situation

i would suggest trying panther fist for this but then if you screw up you'd break your own hand so heh oh well
I hope this helps

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#108179 - 09/18/03 09:15 AM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
York Karate Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 132
Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Firstly yes you did mean offence with a comment like that

I must say this is a first however, A DKI school being called a McDojo, I have been called and labelled many things over the years but never this one. (That title is normally applied to large commercial sport karate type schools.) Now according to Black Belt Magazine September 2003 “George Dillman has probably done more for the traditional martial arts than any other person alive”.



Lets see .......I am Canadian therefore I not only know but understand hockey and can play better than all those who aren’t. Well that makes about as much sense as the ethnocentric nonsense you are making in respect to TCM and "westerns".

Pressure points do work, frankly I have never had a person they won't work on when you use them correctly. This deft fingers comments - I assume you are referring to the area of activation. while in acupuncture it is a small area in striking it is an area the size of a $.25 piece, or the size of an eye, people tell you to strike to the eye all the time, so why then is it so difficult to strike a pressure point, just think of dozens of eyes all over the body to hit . If one knows point location and combines this with the correct method of attack and angle and direction them Kyusho works wonderfully. If you combine Kyusho with Qi projection or transfer then you attack is even more effective.

You focus seems to be blunt force and vital points, nothing wrong with them I suppose, but I wouldn't limit myself to this methodology not when Kyusho-Jitsu, Kia-Jitsu, and so many other things are available to be used.

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#108180 - 09/18/03 10:36 AM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
BaiginLong,

Welcome to the forum. A few things for posting in the Pressure Point Forum...

We don't get into name calling here and let's do without any references to McDojo's.

If you intend to make these references please provide factual evidence or do not make the claim.

I do not know Gordon personally but I do know his teachers and they are stellar. This will not become a DKI bashing issue.

Thank you for your co-operation, and please continue to post.

Your friendly moderator,
Scott

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#108181 - 09/22/03 01:51 AM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
BaiginLong Offline
Member

Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 56
hmmm I think I'll have to apoliogize for a misunderstanding
a McDojo as I see it is any standardized school of martial arts
I guess that's a very skewed definition but it took me an insomniac night to figure it out
my apologies YorkKarate

I am a huge opponent of overstandardization as it limits it's further development in the modern world

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#108182 - 09/24/03 06:51 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Judokid Offline
Member

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 184
Thanks a lot for your replies, everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!This site has definetly the best MA forums on the web that i've seen, and believe me, i've seen a lot of them!!

Budo.

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#108183 - 10/21/03 10:11 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Yojimbo558 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/00
Posts: 253
Loc: Marina, Ca. USA
Hi there,

I understand your desire to learn and improve in the use of pressure points & as someone already pointed out, while they can make your techniques more powerful, they shouldn't be relied on.

On a separate issue but a related one, I agree that you should seek out an instructor. When you deal with pressure points you are utilizing these strikes to overload the organs and you're tampering with how they function.

A teacher will show you how to undo the damage that you're inflicting so that you will also know how to enhance your healing & recuperative abilities.

One of the practioner once shared his pressure point training with Hatsumi Sensei. When Hatsumi asked him what he did to counter the techniques...the guy misunderstood and thought he was referring to reversing a possible counter attack.

When Hatsumi clarified that he was referring to the countering of the pressure point techniques, he was horrified when the guy told him nothing. He had been wearing thicker glasses and had attributed them to age. Hatsumi revealed that in his case it was due to the zealousy with which he was pursuing pressure point attacks, putting undue stress on his organs that had resulted in his glasses thickening to help compensate for his worsening eyesight. After showing him how to do the counters...the individuals eye sight improved & returned to what it had been.

The point is simply...it's great to have an instructor to monitor what you're doing rather than wandering around blindly in the dark.

Eric

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#108184 - 11/19/03 07:54 AM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
wingchun Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/18/03
Posts: 6
Loc: hagerstown md
*closest weapon to nearest target my friend.
lead side kick to shin/knee
finger jab to eyes/throat(do remember this can kill!)
*simplicity no fancey movements(he grabs your sleeve punch him in the throat he willl let go!)
*economy of motion( dont telegraph simple moves work best)
*always think about hitting( dont think I have to block then come back..NO! I will INTERCEPT!)

time and patient practice is key remember to simplify.

(the art of jeet kunee do basic 4 principles)

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#108185 - 01/25/04 11:34 AM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by wingchun:
*closest weapon to nearest target my friend.
lead side kick to shin/knee
finger jab to eyes/throat(do remember this can kill!)
*simplicity no fancey movements(he grabs your sleeve punch him in the throat he willl let go!)
*economy of motion( dont telegraph simple moves work best)
*always think about hitting( dont think I have to block then come back..NO! I will INTERCEPT!)

time and patient practice is key remember to simplify.

(the art of jeet kunee do basic 4 principles)
[/QUOTE]

Makes sense, but I am now beginning to question Bruce since his philosopy somewhat contradicts itself. Wouldn't the weapon further away be more powerful because it travel a longer distance? Close to close stuff is only something I would use at the beginning of a fight to create an opening. Oh and by the way punching bags, and speed balls don't hit back either [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#108186 - 04/14/04 09:47 AM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Dog Of War Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/04
Posts: 265
Loc: The Wastelands
Pressure Points are something I have been training since the first day in my art(San Soo Kung Fu).We have pressure points,what we call "pass points"-vital areas where death or crippling injury is the result,and what I call control points,and balance upsetters.Here are a few points,its up to you Judo kid to figure out which strike to use.These are the basics of most MA's:1.the top of the skull 2.the temples 3.the eyes 4.bridge of the nose 5.the 6.the side of the jaw 7.between the eyes(the third eye)8.the chin 9.the"grains of the neck"(for control).10.the windpipe 11.the collarbones 12.the heart 13.the solar plexus14.the diaphragm15.the liver 16.the spleen 17.the bladder 18.the groin 19.the inside of the leg(about four inches above the knee)20.the shin 21.the instep 22.the ankle
Targets from Behind opponent:
1.the base of the skull 2.the backbone 3.the shoulder blades 4.the kidneys 5.the tailbone 6.the backs of the knees 7.the calfs 8.the achilles tendon.
A rule of thumb is to never strike a hard place with a hard place,unless it is the elbow,the knee,the ball of the foot,or the heel.Consult a qualified teacher.Also look in a good Human anatomy book.hope this helps
Lots of luck,
The Dog of War

[This message has been edited by Dog Of War (edited 04-14-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Dog Of War (edited 04-15-2004).]

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#108187 - 04/14/04 05:02 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
joesixpack Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 2282
Loc: Australia
How does one get the chance to strike the frenulem?

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#108188 - 04/15/04 09:39 AM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Dog Of War Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/04
Posts: 265
Loc: The Wastelands
[QUOTE]Originally posted by joesixpack:
How does one get the chance to strike the frenulem?[/QUOTE]
Dude that was a mistake.It just dawned on me where the frenulum was.Jokes on me.LOL
-The Dog of War

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#108189 - 04/16/04 01:49 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Lo C'hi Offline
Member

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 88
Loc: L.I.,N.Y.
Hey Dog - Were you were referring to the philtrum, the dent in the upper lip?
Apparently, there are many frenulums in the human body, as is noted below in an excerpt from Gray's Anatomy, and I do not think that is the one you guys were chuckling about.

The Mouth.—The orifice of the mouth is bounded by the lips, which are covered externally by the whitish skin and internally by the red mucous membrane. The size of the orifice varies considerably in different individuals, but seems to bear a close relationship to the size and prominence of the teeth; its angles usually correspond to the lateral borders of the canine teeth. Running down the center of the outer surface of the upper lip is a shallow groove—the philtrum. If the lips be everted there can be seen, in the middle line of each, a small fold of mucous membrane—the frenulum—passing from the lip to the gum.

Regards,
Al

[This message has been edited by Lo C'hi (edited 04-16-2004).]

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#108190 - 04/18/04 06:21 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Dog Of War Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/04
Posts: 265
Loc: The Wastelands
Lo Chi,
That was the spot I was thinking of.I wasn't sure of the name.On the inside of the mouth is a frenulum,but I was thinking of the outside part.There are many sensitive nerves that run through there.I appreciate the post about the name.
-The Dog of War

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#108191 - 05/10/04 05:13 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Anonymous
Unregistered


I am a karateka of ten years, massage therapist and yoga instructor. In my work I have become increasingly aware of the pressure points and how they react to stimulii. I have recently been researching the meridians and points, and am wondering if anyone knows where i can find free charts on the web. I have some charts of my own, but I recently realized that there are many different systems and I would like to broaden my knowledge.
To the kid wanting to learn the points for fights i would suggest to stick to training under an instructor, and to avoid fighting. Obviously there are situations where one may be without any choice, but it is actually very rare. Kids at school do not count unless you honestly believe they mean you serious injury and you can not avoid confrontation. If this is the case then it is self defense and you have the right to use lethal force to protect yourself. But watch it! If it isn't clear to a jury you may end up paying dearly, plus you will feel bad if you kill or maim someone's loved one. With bullies, more often than not, it is more about feeling intimidated and not wanting to lose face. Only you can decide what your situation is. The pressure points will not be very useful to you if you don't know how to use them. Besides, in a fighting situation you will likely find that fear and disorientation will reduce the sophistication of your arsenal. I have studied karate for ten years and I doubt I would worry much about pressure points if my life was at stake. I would kick, punch, tear and bite whatever my opponant offered up. Eyes, nose, throat,solar plexus, groin, knee, ankle, wrist, fingers. It's more about knowing how to strike and manipulate than any particular points. As you progress in your training you will gain skill and confidence, and hopefully you will not bully others because you will have compassion and respect for others.

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#108192 - 05/10/04 09:31 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
alan shindsharonjr Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/04
Posts: 54
Loc: beachwood.ohio USA
I am not a big on the idea of charts without you having a instructor to use them as it is very posible to do a knock out since your katas contain the correct angle and direction for the attack.
If you have no training in recovery you may have a work out partner on the ground for quite a while or at the least a sick training partner. But then a start in the knowledge is good. Try www.presurepointfighting.com then click on point location

Good luck
Alan

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#108193 - 05/16/04 05:50 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hey judokid where do you live mybe I could / we could help each other out .........

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#108194 - 05/24/04 11:37 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Anonymous
Unregistered


theres quite a lot of resources on where and which pressure point to strike, but I want to learn how to heal or revive if u get struck at a particular point. Does anyone have any resources or links they can point me to?

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#108195 - 05/25/04 07:53 AM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
gokenki1 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 120
Loc: north waterford , me, usa.
judokid forget pressure points for now,they are advanced m/a that takes years to learn. Judging from your posts you do not have that kind of time.bullys feed off of fear,that is your true enemy.my advice to you is to study your bullys and exspose their own fears,hold yourself with confidence even if inside your crapping your pants don't let them know that.If you have to fight hit them with what they won't expect and do not i repeat do not hesitate,hesitation will make your worse fears come true.you seem like a smart kid use that to your advantage.

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#108196 - 05/31/04 02:08 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Anonymous
Unregistered


hey yunki check out kyusho.com there out of andover mass. threr site can help you out with whatever you'll need......

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#108197 - 06/13/04 10:11 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
reaperblack Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 558
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
basically you just need to find a decent instructor and practice until reaction becomes instinct. As far as pressure points go, you should not be using pressure points on kids at school unless it is like a gang violence situation. If one guy is gonna rough you up by himself then suck it up and go toe to toe with him, martial arts are for defending your life with not playground glory, and shame on all of you who told him to punch someone in the throat or gouge their eyes. You don't need pressure points or martial arts, you need boxing. If you really are in a situation where your life is in danger then I apologize for my comments (to everyone) but otherwise. Grow up!
It's sucks to get beaten up, I know I got beat down by two guys 15 years ago, and sure I coulda killed them but prison woulda sucked more. Instead I took my shots when I could get them and went toe to toe.
sorry to rant guys but some of you are obviously martial artists of ability and you are sitting here teaching some kid how to fight, martial arts are about learning how not to fight. And that is easy, sure I have broken some bones, but only by accident. Usually I have always tried to talk or walk my way out of it.
Again sorry for the rant.

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#108198 - 06/14/04 06:43 AM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
deronthomas Offline
Stranger

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 4
Loc: Evergreen Park, IL USA
I was looking for a chart myself, and then I found this one. I think it is the best one so far. Just don't open it up at work. You know how thees charts are. For some reason they always have full nudity, and you just might offend some Fem-Nazi at work.
http://www.k2labs.org/kungfusion/martial/kempo/points/points.htm

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#108199 - 06/14/04 10:55 AM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
MTSoldier Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 14
Loc: Norwich CT USA
Break the two words apart. Pressure and points. Think of the main points on the body. Now apply pressure does it hurt more than likely a pressure point then. Nose, neck, solar plexus, groin and the knees are my favorite targets. But if you want to really get into it then look at Kheup so they are the vital points that the TKD people focus on. Also Hung Gar. This style does have the Dim Mak. If you are stupid enpugh to practice this without a trained professional you shouldnt be into the martial arts cause you will get hurt.

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#108200 - 06/16/04 11:42 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Your confusing preasure points with vital areas.

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#108201 - 09/28/04 03:43 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi everyone,

Does anyone know if there is an instructor in the Colchester ( uk ) area who can teach me pressure points, what im after is learning how to activate the point so i can use them in my kata bunkai,

Thanks,

Y.m

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#108202 - 10/01/04 09:08 AM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kempoman:
My Advice

Pay for the seminars or find a qualified instructor. Tell me where you are and I will be glad to recommend one in your area. Many are willing to work with restictive budgets for those who truly wish to learn....
Scott
[/QUOTE]

Yesssssssssssss, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!!!!!!!!!!
I'm in Miami, Fl.

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#108203 - 10/01/04 10:33 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Anonymous
Unregistered


hey...

first of all u should relax; too many kids go sign up for a martial arts class bcuz they r gettin' bullied or picked on.what martial arts was orignally designed for was discipline and every1 should know this. what I say is for ur protection.If u go sign up for a martial arts class there r 3 outcomes.1:u would get into a fight and panick do to ur lack of exp.2:u would win the fight and end up bcoming the bully or 3:u can put ur true skills to the test and avoid all fighting whatsoever.I never understood why people want to fight other people.I can understand for sport but this is ridiculous.u should avoid fight at all costs violence just begets violence.if u do get into a fight walk away that is the ultimate way to live be not bothered by any outside experiences but focus on the path ahead of you.BUT IF YOU HAVE TO FIGHT what u should do is work on ur speed so u can dodge ur oppponents atks and leave him stumped as to ur skill that way u impress every1 and u dont have to lay a finger on ne1

plz take my advice.Its the way the world should be run...

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#108204 - 11/19/04 10:20 AM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ed Glasheen:
Try this, punch him in the face first and then kick him in the groin. That will work. The problem is not the target, but your telegraphed move. The groin is VERY easy to attack. In a couple of days I will have an example on my web site. Check out what I mean. There are many different ways to attack vital strike points besides the obvious.Ed www.lonewolfjujutsu.com [/QUOTE]

ok unless your in a ****en life or death situation don't ****in kick them in the balls, i hate faggits like you that tell people 2 kick them in the balls, if u do that ur gunna get ur ass jumped and look like a little pussy, fight like a man don't b a little woman and kick them in the balls

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#108205 - 11/30/04 05:14 AM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Anonymous
Unregistered


Battersap2

"ok unless your in a ****en life or death situation don't ****in kick them in the balls, i hate faggits like you that tell people 2 kick them in the balls, if u do that ur gunna get ur ass jumped and look like a little pussy, fight like a man don't b a little woman and kick them in the balls"

I back that up 100%. Kicking someone in the balls is a sign of weakness, and should only ONLY be ur last resort.

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#108206 - 11/30/04 05:28 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Anonymous
Unregistered


Okay, limit your techniques. What happens in the UFC? What will most martial arts and self defense instructors say?

You will get yourself flogged, and the muggers won't care about chivalry when you are down, I think they will be quite comfortable to kick you when you are down, head, back, groin, all legitiamte targets.

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#108207 - 11/30/04 05:37 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Anonymous
Unregistered


PS

An grammatically challenged child like you has some nerve telling a HTH combat instructor and veteran commando not to kick to the groin in a fight. Ask him about real combat, and being scared. I am sure Ed will tell you what it's really about.

PS What gives you the right to call other people here pussies? Some of them are MMA trainers and martial artists for 30-40 years. Ignorant fool.

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#108208 - 12/04/04 08:49 AM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]There is no surefire pressure point you can use against someone. at most I can say that there's a 85% chance of it working each time. [/QUOTE]

You can attack the solar plexus,the kidneys and the liver.They are all types of pressure point.To say there is only 85% chance of it working is utter nonesense.

If you get punched in the solar plexus you'll drop.
The liver is harder to hit because its placed near the ribcage but if you are hit there also you will go down.
The kidneys does not need explaining.If you get hit hard enough on either side you'll be passing blood for a day or two.
Thighs,throat and behind the kness are pressure points.

People think a pressure point is something you just press with your baby finger and your opponent/aggressor just turns into a heap of jelly and falls on the floor but its simply not the case.There are hidden points but the ones I have mentioned work just as well when it comes to immobilizing a threat.

[This message has been edited by Karl (edited 12-04-2004).]

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#108209 - 12/13/04 02:33 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hey all,

Just my second post here, so am a newbie in these parts. My 2 cents here:

Totally with York Karate.

The DKI is a very important organization in the spreading of PP knowledge in the West. Dillman and his instructors (of which I have trained with Evan Pantazi) are fantastic martial artists.

SOOO many people jump on the PP bandwagon and think they know what they are doing, even start teaching it!!!

1. If someone only mentions body parts, i.e "there's one on the temple", theu DO NOT know PP's. PRESSURE POINTS, not VITAL POINTS, just as York Karate has stated. PP's are junctions on meridians an are annotated by the meridian name and a number e.g. TW-17 (cos I love that point!).

2. Baigin, yes these points can TOTALLY be mapped scientifically. That's what acupuncture is based on!!! The meridian system is very much mapped and concrete, and soon, Qi flow, in its bioelectric state will be proved medically also.

3. The more complex systems of 5 elements (Wu-Xing), polarity, sound projection, NTKO's etc are harder to grasp, but totally exist.

There's too much info on Dim Mak/Dian Xue/Kyusho-Jitsu to put it all down, but THAT is real PP work, and is what has been issing from real Karate for years after WWII.


Mark.

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#108210 - 12/20/04 03:19 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Anonymous
Unregistered


Nobody ****s around with me at school.

I teach Marines how to fight and i make these 200lbs guys, all muscle and are 6'6" cry like 2 year olds. (No exageration)

Email me

Jack Stone

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#108211 - 12/20/04 09:38 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Anonymous
Unregistered


200lbs, 6'6 and all muscle?

What 0% bodyfat? Or not much muscle?

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#108212 - 01/30/05 10:22 AM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Anonymous
Unregistered


instead of presure points bash him in the face with something [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

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#108213 - 02/04/05 10:51 PM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shotokan:
Close to close stuff is only something I would use at the beginning of a fight to create an opening. [/QUOTE]

Backfists work great [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Oh, and it's relatively easy to make anybody cry if you know how to jackstone [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

[This message has been edited by ShotokanJujutsu (edited 02-04-2005).]

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#108214 - 08/23/05 05:37 AM Re: HELP!!!!!! Learning Pressure Points [Re: MAGon]
xamax Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 15
please do not rush it takes years to understand the human body . even to the expert sometimes they having a hard time to locate the pressure points. find a good instructor (not those crappy [censored] who are out there). and take ur times. if u do something wrong you can kill somebody with pressure points or worst handicapp them for life. so be careful!!!!!

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