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#108052 - 10/21/02 09:21 AM Kiai jistu
Gordon Travers Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/02
Posts: 34
Loc: Toronto, ON Canada
We had a fantastic 3 day seminar this weekend with a great combination of healing and martial arts. It was difficult to tell what the group enjoyed more the healing massage theory and application introduced by Dr. Lake or the Kiai –Jitsu and Kyusho clinic taught by Master Panatazi.

We spent a great deal of time on energy development and application one interesting thing we found during the Kiai-jitsu section. We worked several different sounds to explore their impact. For an example to demonstrate the up sound Master Panatazi had each pair lift some one first just with normal body weight, then as dead weight and then lift the dead weight saying to up sound. It was easier to lift the dead weight with the up sound; I frankly found it easier than normal weight. But what was interesting was we found that when doing it even if a third party made the sound it had the same effect. What we did in this case was I had the person on my back for the lift and instead of me making the sound Dr Lake stood in front of me and made the sound and we had the same results.

This, and the other examples we worked with, were simple and effective tests that showed the value of sound and why we Kiai during kata. It also showed that a kiai is not just a yell or any loud sound. This will be an area of greater study for me over the next while and I look forward to a better understanding the application of kiai in kata. Suggestions on where to go to find more are welcome

Master Panatazi sessions on the use of Kyusho in kata application took everyone to new levels in bunkai. We took a look at several moves from a number of kata and applied the basics of both biomechanics and kyusho principles to explore what we were doing and the results of the attacks. We concluded this section with a KO clinic – people selected a move from a kata - Kake Uke and we used the principles and skills acquired to undertake a Knock out. The goal was not a full level 3 KO but a simple stun.

90% of the people who attended the session were able to get an effective stun to work (with no ill effects on anyone) demon staring both that the technique worked and showing the results of a properly executed move from a kata and based on the physical result of the attack why the next move in the kata takes place.


We also started a Qi study at the university to try and measure and quantify Qi, which went very well according to the lead Professor, and her team. The data is preliminary at this point and more statistical analysis is required. We had four people projecting Qi various ways with and without sound. The goal is to use western scientific methodology to try and measure Qi. We have undertaken this because many people say Qi does not exist because you cannot show it me or measure in terms I will accept. We believe Qi exists regardless of this based on the evidence of application, just like atoms existed before western science was able to prove they did. The goal is to use new western scientific methodology and equipment to try and measure Qi and just like the atom prove it exists.

Once we have results we will share it including the methodology. (so Chris no need to rant now, wait until we publish and then you can)

I want to thank everyone who took part, it was wonderful to see so many open minded people in one place working together to grow our art.

Best wishes and good training

Gordon Travers

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#108053 - 11/23/02 12:57 PM Re: Kiai jistu
Omega-Point Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 54
Loc: san antonio, tx., usa
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gordon Travers:
We also started a Qi study at the university to try and measure and quantify Qi, which went very well according to the lead Professor, and her team. The data is preliminary at this point and more statistical analysis is required. We had four people projecting Qi various ways with and without sound. The goal is to use western scientific methodology to try and measure Qi. We have undertaken this because many people say Qi does not exist because you cannot show it me or measure in terms I will accept. We believe Qi exists regardless of this based on the evidence of application, just like atoms existed before western science was able to prove they did. The goal is to use new western scientific methodology and equipment to try and measure Qi and just like the atom prove it exists.

Once we have results we will share it including the methodology. (so Chris no need to rant now, wait until we publish and then you can)

I want to thank everyone who took part, it was wonderful to see so many open minded people in one place working together to grow our art.

Best wishes and good training

Gordon Travers
[/QUOTE]

Quantum and theoretical physics agrees with you. There is ki/qi/chi. There is also Ch'i. You can't prove the soul or qi exists now, but people who know the truth don't need proof.

Science is often limited and self-defeating due to the "burden of proof". If reality is subjective, and perception is illusion then proof is often no different than consensus opinion. Entropy and Order are eternally grappling. Can you concretely realize the limits of both sides? Gotta try I guess.



[This message has been edited by Omega-Point (edited 11-23-2002).]

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#108054 - 12/23/02 12:16 PM Re: Kiai jistu
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
I would love to take a look at the results of the experiments, and the controls that were placed on them during the testing.

Thanks
Scott

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#108055 - 12/30/02 06:08 AM Re: Kiai jistu
Gordon Travers Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/02
Posts: 34
Loc: Toronto, ON Canada
Good day
There is a paper being written and once done - hopefully in a couple of weeks - it will be posted for all to read

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#108056 - 03/26/03 05:40 AM Re: Kiai jistu
Scholar Offline
Member

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 472
Loc: Brockton
Could using the particular sound associated with the channell with a particular finger activate that channel and empower the strike??Ie; Heart Channel- Middle finger- Haa sound?

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