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#107989 - 09/24/03 11:30 AM Re: How the "death touch" works
kempocos Offline

Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 516
Loc: flemington,nj,usa
A major issue learning these techniques is remebering when the concepts were developed.
The concepts were formed to explian why pain and death occured before science evolved to the levels of today. To understand the ideas of the OLD WAYS as some put it you cannot expect to explain them useing a modern mindset. This is why many have trouble accepting CHI, MERIDIANS, 5 ELEMENTS. They do not make sense how they present them selves in modern science. If you train with
a teacher such as Sieyu Oyata, Who is the true person to bring this to modern Karate dojos. They will not bring modern science into it because it will not make sense if looked at from a western viepoint. Many today try to mix TCM with Modern western medicne and this causes more confusion.

This is just my opinion

#107990 - 09/24/03 08:03 PM Re: How the "death touch" works
joesixpack Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 2282
Loc: Australia
I want a MWM expanation. To say this cannot be done is silly. Why not.

To be a smart ass, "confusion is the beginning of clarity"

#107991 - 09/25/03 07:48 AM Re: How the "death touch" works
kempocos Offline

Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 516
Loc: flemington,nj,usa
joesixpack -"I want a MWM expanation. To say this cannot be done is silly. Why not.
To be a smart ass, "confusion is the beginning of clarity"

The view points of western medicine denies the exsistance of chi, meridians and such. So to mix the TCM and MWM explantions will not make any sense. You can explain a techniques result in both TCM and MWM terms, however to mix the explantion in both terms would leave open ends in the information.

As a wise ass would say.
If you do not speak any spanish, and you hear some speaking and every third word is in spanish , do you really know what they are saying.

As always IMHO

#107992 - 01/12/04 07:48 PM Re: How the "death touch" works
pod3 Offline

Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 62
Yes, has anyone here developed a clear perception of energy before finding it in a body?!!

#107993 - 01/21/04 03:28 PM Re: How the "death touch" works
lungqino111 Offline

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 14
Loc: ireland
hello everyone,

enjoying the debate on "dim Mak".
my understanding is that in "nei-ja" (internal) systems chi usually refers to blood circulation or the respiratory system. "jing" or focused power refers to "li" or strength applied correctly in the right direction.
Dim Mak or "spotting" striking pressure points, closing circulation or appling pressure to cause pain and involentary reaction are mentioned a lot in internal styles. In tai chi chuan a lot of enphasis is placed on relaxation, (a misconception about this has created a lot of tu-fu chuan schools all yin and no yang) , relaxation while adhering to the opponent allows our arms to naturally slide, control and find our opponents weak points as the slide will be stopped at a bump-joint and this is where nerve plexuses and arteries-veins are most exposed. Is this what someone meant about rubbing lightly? as once they are found if the opponent has any "gung" or is reasonably tough, force will need to be used and used in the right direction! which is the crux isn't it and here I agree with the necessity of a good delivery system. its one thing to hit a half blind staggering drunk quite another to land an attack on a well trained uncooperative opponent. someone once said "art is the ability of an external object to engender a specific emotional response in the observer. having fought in various international san-shou comps over the last 3 years i have come to believe that martial art is the ability through external movements or eye techniques to engerder a certain physical responses in the opponent. The science is power, conditioning etc, we can all break boards! landing these attacks is the key.
Iknow what training it takes (conditioning and learning how to faint and draw UNDER PRESSURE) just to land a good punch, thats a large weapon on a large target, how the hell someone with basic training is expected to pull off dim mak techniques is beyond me.
Finally and old expression says - once we have fists we use nothing else", grabbing i believe is low level, adherance can be achieved & locks etc with the fore arms. After all if you grab me you're one arm short and i dont have to grab you, also you'll need the time to let go if you wish to use that hand again!

Dim Mak - Dim or what?

#107994 - 05/17/04 11:55 AM Re: How the "death touch" works

Hi Guy and Gals,
Good debate, strength vs. skill. I might just add that after 35 years in Combat Jujitsu and now at the ripe old age of 55 with many broken bones over the years, that strength fades but knowledge and skill remains.
I personally believe in power strikes with knowledge of where and how they are best used and in what situation (be it a rub or a hit). I also believe that knowledge to deescalate a situation, not power is your best strike ( I am aware that youth or ego will not agree with this). To develop only one area of skill is to limit your potential. A student of MA, whatever style one studies, is also about growth as a student of the style as well as a person..........never stop learning and never turn away knowledge when it comes knocking at your door. If your approach is limited by your ego, then your journey will unfortunately take much, much longer. What ever your rank is, remain humble to the vast knowledge in MA and never stop being a student.

#107995 - 07/10/04 05:38 PM Re: How the "death touch" works

I really don't understand why the "DEATH TOUCH" has to be so mysterious and tip-toed around all the time.
Out of respect to this forum (not to mention the fact that I guess ANYTHING is possible.....well not really, but that saying allways sounds nice), I will assume that this lethal technique exists, why is it so hush-hush??
It would seem to some people I suppose that the deadly nature of the art itself would explain it's need to lurk in the shadows so to speak, but really, I have been training & teaching chokes and neck-cranks (my specialty if I do say so myself. For some reason leverage against the neck has always come easier to me than most other forms of submission) for years, both of which if taken too far can be deadly (many neck locks have to be applied with care when sparring because if applied explosively enough, it's obvious to all involved that the dislocation of the spine can easily occur).
Why is the infamous "DEATH TOUCH" any different. I sure have my own theory, but I welcome any and all thought on this subject as it fascinates me (much in the way I as an Agnostic am totally fascinated by Religion and ESPECIALLY Faith).

#107996 - 07/10/04 05:49 PM Re: How the "death touch" works
joesixpack Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 2282
Loc: Australia
I agree, I just want to seperate the claptrap from the actual stuff that can be explained by science - for example, the application of the knifehand strike I described to you REALLY does lower your blood pressure, then quickly raises it. In short, your breain can't take it and you become KO'd.

Given that some boxers die from brain concussion, I don't think that "the death touch" is that mystical. Getting a blood clot and dying seems "normal". Training for the optimal target, power and draconian hand conditiong seem overzealous though when the tech itself won't help you win a fight - being faster and being able to turn an opponents mistake into an advantage - (lock, choke, takedown, KO set up) and then finish them seems to be more useful.

#107997 - 08/18/04 07:30 PM Re: How the "death touch" works

Dim mak is another name for pressure point striking but there are certain moves that can kill later. This type of kill is delayed and what i have been taught is about cycle time and posture and energy are all relative to this way of kill. Hit all points you can and hit one that connects them and the body will have trouble even if someone survives it .

#107998 - 08/20/04 02:11 PM Re: How the "death touch" works

Scott wrote:

The points run along the external trajectories of the meridians, there is also an internal trajectory as well it is using the external to get to the internal pathways that can cause these types of effects.


Easy there Scott! Starting to give away the farm there! <grin!>

I am back up in running in GA. Drop me a line when you get the chance.

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