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#107949 - 06/08/02 07:46 PM How the "death touch" works
joesixpack Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 2282
Loc: Australia
Reading Patrick Mc Carthy's translation of the bushibi, I see an explanation of the much vaunted "death touch". This paticular explanation goes on to say that death occurs after the strike causes severe internal hemorraging or a blood clot.

This makes sense, but it implies that i) dim mak can only be done after a hard strike, ii) implies nothing about weakening blows or fire points, iii) implies that (most) death touch points are blood gates, not nerve points in the sense of paralysing, neurological shutdown or pain points.

Thoughts?

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#107950 - 06/15/02 06:00 PM Re: How the "death touch" works
Kung Fu Wayne Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/08/02
Posts: 22
The "Death Touch" sounds nice and misterious but the fact is there are many ways to kill a person with a single strike if you strike certain meridian points at certain angles. It all revolves around stoppping the flow of the internal energy which flows through meridians, thats basically it.

I understand there are other types of "Death Touches" which relay on sending the energy of the strike deep into the body - the main principle in most striking in Kung Fu (striking loose and only tensing up just before the moment of impact).

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#107951 - 06/19/02 05:17 PM Re: How the "death touch" works
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
Man is this ever a controversial subject...

The points run along the external trajectories of the meridians, there is also an internal trajectory as well it is using the external to get to the internal pathways that can cause these types of effects.

I wont post info on this, but will discuss in private e-mails.

Kempoman

swatkins@coral-energy.com

[This message has been edited by Kempoman (edited 06-03-2003).]

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#107952 - 07/05/02 09:20 PM Re: How the "death touch" works
joesixpack Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 2282
Loc: Australia
Just so you know it is me, joesixpack will email you under the alias of jjnuman@hotmail.com

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#107953 - 06/03/03 07:31 AM Re: How the "death touch" works
mercurial Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 12
I have heard some theories about the famed death touch...some of which make more sense then others. One is similar to the strike performed in Bloodsport on the bricks where a specific brick was chosen and the energy of the strike was dictated to detonate there instead of the previous bricks. If I remember correctly that is a specific technique but can't profess to know it myself. The other kinda goes along with how pp's work in the first place. The way they disrupt one's internal energy. Isn't it a person's flow of energy and such which allow a person to heal and rejuvinate? If that's so couldn't there be a strike which inhibits that flow basically having the victim's energy drain out and not be replenished? Many of the tales of the dim mak have been said to not necessarily kill instantly, but kills in a number of weeks. This explanation could possibly explain that...If I understand how the pp's seem to work. If someone possess knowledge to disprove my theory feel free to let me know.

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#107954 - 06/03/03 07:42 AM Re: How the "death touch" works
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
The death touch explained.

Hit anything hard enough, it dies!

Does my MA lack something in subtlety [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

JohnL

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#107955 - 06/03/03 08:15 AM Re: How the "death touch" works
Anonymous
Unregistered


John, I wish you taught in the UK.
There are many "martial artists" I would like to introduce you to.
Loved your death touch explaination.
Sharon

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#107956 - 06/03/03 09:52 AM Re: How the "death touch" works
York Karate Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 132
Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Yes John you have missed the “point, I won’t discuss delayed reaction to Kysuho strikes, but adress you hit them hard enough comment.

While blunt force trauma can be effective the reason is a message sent to the nervous system. The problem with blunt force trauma is not only does it require size and strength it also results in damage – bruises, broken bones and cuts. This damage, if severe enough, can cause permanent injury it also places us at risk because of the chance of infection resulting from exposure to open wounds such as cuts

The main idea or principle behind karate-jitsu the real heart of karate is the use of pressure points. Most people understand vital points – like the eyes for example. Pressure points or Kyusho are less known points on the body. Pressure points are used in the healing art of acupuncture to restore health. In Karate-Jitsu these same pressure points are touched, hit or rubbed to make techniques effective for fighting and self-defence. Without the use of pressure points a confrontation is decided by the lowest common dominator blunt- force trauma, which is simply a function of size and strength. How can a 98-pound woman or child defend himself or herself against a 250-pound attacker regardless of their fitness or skill level? The only way is with the effective use of pressure points.

What is a pressure point? A pressure point is a place on the body where a signal or message can be entered directly into the nervous system. Muscle and bone cannot feel pain, only nerves can feel pain. .

Pressure points – Kyusho- Jistu - provide the tool to effectively, safely and humanely defend oneself as well as provide a deeper understanding of the appliaction (bunkai) for basics amd kata.

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#107957 - 06/03/03 01:05 PM Re: How the "death touch" works
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
Hi York

As you're new to the forum, you won't quite get my sarcasm yet. Give it time though.

I thought a couple of points you made were worth commenting on though.

"I won’t discuss delayed reaction to Kysuho strikes."

I will. When I hit the bugger, I want him to drop NOW. Not in half an hour, not in a week, not some time when there's a full moon. NOW!

"The problem with blunt force trauma is not only does it require size and strength it also results in damage – bruises, broken bones and cuts."

Yup. That's the idea! (size doesn't matter, strength helps)

"This damage, if severe enough, can cause permanent injury it also places us at risk because of the chance of infection resulting from exposure to open wounds such as cuts"

If you are defending yourself, these are the least of your problems.

"The main idea or principle behind karate-jitsu the real heart of karate is the use of pressure points."

Says who?

"In Karate-Jitsu these same pressure points are touched, hit or rubbed to make techniques effective for fighting and self-defence."

Touching or rubbing them. If you are telling people that touching or rubbing pressure points is effective self defence, think again. The touching or rubbing is done in seminars so people don't get hurt too much.

"Without the use of pressure points a confrontation is decided by the lowest common dominator blunt- force trauma, which is simply a function of size and strength."

Who says blunt trauma is the lowest common denominator? Teaching people to generate good force with what they have is a skill worth having. If you're going to hit pressure points your blunt trauma skills had better be up to snuff.

"How can a 98-pound woman or child defend himself or herself against a 250-pound attacker regardless of their fitness or skill level?"

Garbage.
Pressure points will not help one bit in the situation you describe. She's gonna get a thumpin'.

"The only way is with the effective use of pressure points."

Without an efficient delivery system, knowing pressure points isn't going to help.

"Pressure points – Kyusho- Jistu - provide the tool to effectively, safely and humanely defend oneself"

No they don't. It's irresponsible posts like yours that send people to the pressure point seminars seeking a magical fix to why they suck at MA's. They then return thinking they can defend themselves without a good delivery system. When I defend myself or my family the last thing I'm concerned with is if I'm being humane to the bast**d.

Welcome to the forum [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

JohnL

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#107958 - 06/03/03 01:49 PM Re: How the "death touch" works
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by York Karate:
Yes John you have missed the “point, I won’t discuss delayed reaction to Kysuho strikes, but adress you hit them hard enough comment.

While blunt force trauma can be effective the reason is a message sent to the nervous system. The problem with blunt force trauma is not only does it require size and strength it also results in damage – bruises, broken bones and cuts. This damage, if severe enough, can cause permanent injury it also places us at risk because of the chance of infection resulting from exposure to open wounds such as cuts

[/QUOTE]

So when does a "death touch" not cause permanent damage?

Sharon

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