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#107867 - 01/08/02 03:22 PM Re: Lets Begin the experiments....!
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
Also,

When trying the GB-Cluster(this one is hard for everyone at first) it is good to couple it with GB-24(zip the ribs down and in) on the opposite side than you intend to strike on the head. For the cluster to work for the KO there is a movement that is needed. The palm must be slightly cupped and on impact there should be a slight twist(clockwise) then the suction on the pull-off is what gets the KO. The cluster also responds wel to rubbing with the knuckles and vibration with the palm.

See if this helps.

Scott

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#107868 - 01/08/02 03:29 PM Re: Lets Begin the experiments....!
martinnitram Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/01
Posts: 108
Loc: england
Scott,

once again thanks for your help, i look forward to mpegs and pics coming into use that would be a great contribution to the site. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#107869 - 01/09/02 06:34 PM Re: Lets Begin the experiments....!
martinnitram Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/01
Posts: 108
Loc: england
I tried the experiment again on two different uke's, this time i aimed a little higher.

uke 1, assistant teacher at aikido.)

he said ' when i hit outwards towards his wrist it definately had more of an effect. Although he said he felt a sharp pain but he said a normal dead arm punch would of caused more of an effect'. When i asked to try again though he smiled and said no.

Uke 2, krateka friend)

This time i just hit it in the one direction outwards in a circular motion. The results this time were perfect, i saw movement in the uke as he droped slightly at the knees. i think the circular motion helped.

It just goes to show how techniques and knowledge being shared on this forum can easily be improved through sharing knowledge.

thanx alot
martin [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

still no improvement on the cluster though, i'll keep trying

[This message has been edited by martinnitram (edited 01-09-2002).]

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#107870 - 01/17/02 10:59 PM Re: Lets Begin the experiments....!
DGNR8 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/11/02
Posts: 4
You said
"When trying the GB-Cluster(this one is hard for everyone at first) it is good to couple it with GB-24(zip the ribs down and in) on the opposite side than you intend to strike on the head. For the cluster to work for the KO there is a movement that is needed. The palm must be slightly cupped and on impact there should be a slight twist(clockwise) "

I have heard this described several times now and still just don't get it.Is the motion clockwise no matter which side of his head I am striking?That would mean that on one side I am twisting toward the outside of his body,and on the other,toward the centerline.Is it clockwise "for me";i.e. imagining a clock behind my opp.,or for him;clock behind me?or is it opposite on opposite sides?I have a video clip of sensei Evan Pantazi(www.kyusho.com)performing a ko to this spot.He strikes opp.right side gb cluster with his left hand and twists COUNTER-clockwise(if the clock is to be imagined behind the opp.).HELP!!!!!

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#107871 - 01/24/02 11:34 AM Re: Lets Begin the experiments....!
Shadowfax Offline
Member

Registered: 10/08/01
Posts: 296
Loc: Mason City, IA
Hang on a sec. . .GB20 is not exactly something you want to be fooling around with unless there's a qualified instructor in the room who knows revival techniques VERY well - -- I've seen (and felt) the results of a good GB20 strike and in some cases you need revival to prevent serious problems. For learning pressure points on your own, I recommend sticking to the forearm points as they don't really do anything that's permanently dangerous.

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#107872 - 01/28/02 01:56 PM Re: Lets Begin the experiments....!
tweety Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/27/02
Posts: 6
Loc: Chicago, Il, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DGNR8:
You said
"When trying the GB-Cluster(this one is hard for everyone at first) it is good to couple it with GB-24(zip the ribs down and in) on the opposite side than you intend to strike on the head. For the cluster to work for the KO there is a movement that is needed. The palm must be slightly cupped and on impact there should be a slight twist(clockwise) "

I have heard this described several times now and still just don't get it.Is the motion clockwise no matter which side of his head I am striking?That would mean that on one side I am twisting toward the outside of his body,and on the other,toward the centerline.Is it clockwise "for me";i.e. imagining a clock behind my opp.,or for him;clock behind me?or is it opposite on opposite sides?I have a video clip of sensei Evan Pantazi(www.kyusho.com)performing a ko to this spot.He strikes opp.right side gb cluster with his left hand and twists COUNTER-clockwise(if the clock is to be imagined behind the opp.).HELP!!!!!
[/QUOTE]


I think the easiest way to describe the twist is to twist toward the pinky finger, for best results. The other way may work with enough force, but really isn't the most efficient and natural. And, don't think of it as a straight on blow, but more of a grazing shot.

Steve

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#107873 - 01/29/02 02:47 PM Re: Lets Begin the experiments....!
DGNR8 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/11/02
Posts: 4
Shadowfax-
You said"Hang on a sec. . .GB20 is not exactly something you want to be fooling around with unless there's a qualified instructor in the room who knows revival techniques VERY well - -- I've seen (and felt) the results of a good GB20 strike and in some cases you need revival to prevent serious problems. For learning pressure points on your own, I recommend sticking to the forearm points as they don't really do anything that's permanently dangerous. "

First I would like to point out that GB20 was not mentioned in these posts.We were speaking of the GB cluster on the forehead.Please see this link to familiarize yourself with these points.http://www.kyusho.com/GB-C.jpg
I agree with you about revival techniques being important,which is why that was my first area of study into kyushojutsu.As far as not trying to learn points without a "qualified instructor",I will refrain from commenting as my opinion is likely to open a can of worms.

Tweety-
You said "I think the easiest way to describe the twist is to twist toward the pinky finger, for best results. The other way may work with enough force, but really isn't the most efficient and natural. And, don't think of it as a straight on blow, but more of a grazing shot. "

Thank you for the reply.This is what I kind of figured was meant,but the wording of clockwise and counter clockwise is very hard to understand considering it depends on a point of view.

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#107874 - 01/30/02 06:05 PM Re: Lets Begin the experiments....!
martinnitram Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/01
Posts: 108
Loc: england
Scott, im ready and waiting for the next experiment.... lol

martin

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#107875 - 06/24/02 10:34 PM Re: Lets Begin the experiments....!
Gordon Travers Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/02
Posts: 34
Loc: Toronto, ON Canada
A correct strike to lung 5 should drop the shoulder and bring the head forward.

If you try a douple strike to Lung 5 using the correct scoping motion you should be able to get a KO or at least a stun. This has worked for me 8 out of 10 times

You might want to consider following up the Lung 5 hit with a strike liver 14, I watched a 14 year old 110 pound gril drop a 200 pound man just 3 weeks ago with this

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