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#107817 - 08/20/04 04:42 PM Re: Taikyoku Shodan...A beginners Kata?!?
Anonymous
Unregistered


reaperblack:

If I may....

In the context of vital points or pressure points, the use of low level block "gedan bari" (and as a seperate point, the use of the term block is incorrect at it is an incorrect translation of the Japanese...but that is a different topic in and of itself) is quite effective against a kick.

If you combine taisabaki (body shifting)/ashi-sabaki (foot shifting) to angle away from the kick, the "low block" is perfectly suited and angled to strike Gallbladder-20 (GB-20) on the outside part of the thigh...about midway down. It also provides you with the correct angle and direction to make the most effective strike (that being in and down at a 45 degree angle).

The great part about this strike is that it will cause a loss of feeling in the leg. However, since it is in the air, the attacker really cannot feel this until they follow through and put the foot back to the floor. At this point (should it be executed correctly), they will collapse. Then the encounter begins to get really interesting.

Give it a try and see what your results are. Just start out at a slow speed as if you go full tilt and get it right, your training partner can really damage their knee and/or ankle.

Let me know the results you get.

With regards,

Michael

ps - I am not saying that any other combative interpretation of this movement/technique (oyo) is necessarily incorrect...just offering up another alternative in how to look at the seemingly infinite possibilities.

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#107818 - 08/21/04 08:59 PM Re: Taikyoku Shodan...A beginners Kata?!?
reaperblack Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 558
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Interesting, we do practise both these strikes in bunkai, but not for this form. We practise this form for foundation of stances, timing, looking before you move, etc. The beginners stuff. But thank you for your points. No pun intended. I picked the point that I did because it becomes accessable and easily struck by using this block and step for either a kick or a low punch, which keeps things nice and simple. The essence of martial arts. I also chose this strike because it will end the conflict, and if it doesn't it gives you access to your opponents head to grab and do as you wish. Where the head goes the body will follow. Let me add an extention on here after the low block and strike don't retract your hand, open it (into crane hand) at the base of the brain stem and grab, pull your opponents head toward you placing your other hand against his chin, now turn and low block to the other side. you can use this as a throw or a neck snap if you wish.

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#107819 - 09/23/04 03:23 AM Re: Taikyoku Shodan...A beginners Kata?!?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I am not getting into the discussion of kata bunkais, as I am not into any karate systems; I more into the chinese systems. However I do want to make an interesting observation. As a person of chinese descent, I've grown in a martial-art environment where adults talk / demonstrate / argue / "fist-talk" about this or that technique / system and so on and read some old chinese martial arts novels where the charactors do exactly the same thing, though fictionally. That was old china of long ago. Now I see modern Americans doing exactly the same thing and in the same heated way -- deja vu! Men, martial arts men, ancient chinese or modern americans --- all the same. Now I know why I always here my elders call other members of the martial arts community -- Brothers!
Its good to see martial arts becoming a true cultural bridge.

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#107820 - 09/25/04 06:03 AM Re: Taikyoku Shodan...A beginners Kata?!?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by meijin:
reaperblack:

If I may....

In the context of vital points or pressure points, the use of low level block "gedan bari" (and as a seperate point, the use of the term block is incorrect at it is an incorrect translation of the Japanese...but that is a different topic in and of itself) is quite effective against a kick.

If you combine taisabaki (body shifting)/ashi-sabaki (foot shifting) to angle away from the kick, the "low block" is perfectly suited and angled to strike Gallbladder-20 (GB-20) on the outside part of the thigh...about midway down. It also provides you with the correct angle and direction to make the most effective strike (that being in and down at a 45 degree angle).

The great part about this strike is that it will cause a loss of feeling in the leg. However, since it is in the air, the attacker really cannot feel this until they follow through and put the foot back to the floor. At this point (should it be executed correctly), they will collapse. Then the encounter begins to get really interesting.

Give it a try and see what your results are. Just start out at a slow speed as if you go full tilt and get it right, your training partner can really damage their knee and/or ankle.

Let me know the results you get.

With regards,

Michael

ps - I am not saying that any other combative interpretation of this movement/technique (oyo) is necessarily incorrect...just offering up another alternative in how to look at the seemingly infinite possibilities.
[/QUOTE]


'GB-20 is below the skull to the side?'

MF

Top
#107821 - 10/19/04 04:21 PM Re: Taikyoku Shodan...A beginners Kata?!?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Now I'm really going to rock the boat.
I DON'T BELIEVE IN KATAS. You people are going to say I'm crazy, I don't know what I'm talking about and so on!
Well, have you ever heard of JON BLUMING, known as the beast of Amsterdam? 10th dan karate 9th dan judo,(president of international budo kai kan). Well I have a tape of him being interviewed, and he states that "it's absolute nonsence to try and teach someone to fight with Katas, and that katas are tought just to pass the time and charge the students". He did state that katas were nice for supleness.
Sorry people but that's also my oppinion and experiance. Now I'm sure I'm going to hear some nasty things.

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#107822 - 10/19/04 08:47 PM Re: Taikyoku Shodan...A beginners Kata?!?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Good. Don't practice them. If you do it the Japanese, JKA way [perfection of character BS], I understand why. Once you are taught the old shaolin and okinawan ways, and how to anal;yse them, perhaps another MA like aikido, you may change your mind. If they are not for you, they are not for you. Interestingly, Bas Rutten is a fan.

What do you mean by fighting? Practicing a lock flow won't teach you how to kickbox either.

What are you training for?

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#107823 - 10/20/04 05:44 AM Re: Taikyoku Shodan...A beginners Kata?!?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi

I agree with the above.

The Japs who were given childrens karate by the Okinawans, ruined the image of Kata.

Also because it was assimilated by the middle class Japs like Kanazawa and Enoeda they never learnt their street fighting applications.

Go to Okinawan Karate or some of the briliant instructors who teach real applications.

not the watered down Jap garbage.

MF

Top
#107824 - 10/20/04 06:42 AM Re: Taikyoku Shodan...A beginners Kata?!?
Anonymous
Unregistered


To answer Mark Hill:
Believe me I USED to practice them a lot, but it's been years since I've stopped the katas. Actually I forgot most of them. BY "fighting" I mean "survival", outside a dojo in real life. Staying out of the hospital or worst.
I train in a gym 5 days a week most of the year. I'm a bouncer and a lot of my actual training is on the job experiance. I'm hitting close to 55 years of age,(although most people don't give me a day over forty), and it's time I retire. I can go back to the dojo and have FUN.

To answer madfranck:
I actually started in the Okinawan style of Kyokushinkai and then went on to other styles.

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#107825 - 10/20/04 06:11 PM Re: Taikyoku Shodan...A beginners Kata?!?
Anonymous
Unregistered


You don't think some of the real bunkai is brutal, focused for survival rather than sport or "perfection of character". Counters to the shoot, whips throws etc? I know you don't have to pracitce kata to do these. All I know is I'd rather have the crap kicked out of me than have my fingers ripped from my metacarpals, thrown head first onto the ground....

"Okinawan style of Kyokushinkai"

I thought Mas Oyama's style was very Japanese.

BTW I have a lot of repsect for bouncers who are alos MA's.

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