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#107797 - 07/09/01 08:19 AM Taikyoku Shodan...A beginners Kata?!?
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
All,

This form is know by many names in many systems and is usually the first kata taught to beginners. A series of low blocks(?) and punches done from a front stance in an H-pattern.

We all were taught that you are blocking a front kick and punching the attacker in the solar-plexus...over and over and over until the cows came home.

I would suggest that this kata has nothing to do with front kicks and punches to the solar-plexus, but is one of the most deadly kata taught.

Look at the first movement of the kata(not the down block). The first move of the kata is what is normally called "ready position".
This is where the fists shoot out in front of the body at about belt level and in some systems the left foot makes a small twist. Every movement in kata no matter how small or unimportant looking has meaning. This movement which is overlooked in most bunkai sets up the attacker for the next movement that looks like a down block.

When "ready position" is executed as shown the result is usually a KO. There are always at least three levels of bunkai for each move in kata. The first level for this move is for the fists to shoot out and attack a point that is about two finger widths on each side of the navel. This point is called stomach 25(St-25). The foot twist is on the large toe on the termination of the spleen meridian. The stomach meridian is yin/earth and the spleen meridian is yang/earth so you get a yin/yang attack. You also get three earth points(two stomach, and one spleen) so you have the makings of a KO. The stomach points should be struck down and out toward the outside of the body. The spleen point should be twisted with the foot.

As always the next move in a kata shows you what to do if your movement did not work as expected. When you attack the stomach points the body will bend and drop down placing the head around the area of the "fold" for the down block movement. Look closely at the position of the hands in the fold. They are perfect to grab the head at two key pressure points that release the muscles of the neck. The left(top) hand grabs the hair on the opposite side and digs the knuckles in at Gall Bladder 20(GB-20) which is located just under the occipitial bone about three finger widths away from the spine. The bottom hand crosses under the head and taps(strikes) the jaw at stomach 4(St-4). The down block and turn is executed and you can imagine what happens. The step and punch completes the technique and would be overkill.

Just the tip of the iceberg of how pressure points enhance the study of kata.

Let the questions commence!!!

Scott

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#107798 - 07/10/01 04:07 PM Re: Taikyoku Shodan...A beginners Kata?!?
John Anthony Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/01
Posts: 28
Loc: Pottstown, PA, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kempoman:
All,

This form is know by many names in many systems and is usually the first kata taught to beginners. A series of low blocks(?) and punches done from a front stance in an H-pattern.

We all were taught that you are blocking a front kick and punching the attacker in the solar-plexus...over and over and over until the cows came home.

I would suggest that this kata has nothing to do with front kicks and punches to the solar-plexus, but is one of the most deadly kata taught.

Look at the first movement of the kata(not the down block). The first move of the kata is what is normally called "ready position".
This is where the fists shoot out in front of the body at about belt level and in some systems the left foot makes a small twist. Every movement in kata no matter how small or unimportant looking has meaning. This movement which is overlooked in most bunkai sets up the attacker for the next movement that looks like a down block.

When "ready position" is executed as shown the result is usually a KO. There are always at least three levels of bunkai for each move in kata. The first level for this move is for the fists to shoot out and attack a point that is about two finger widths on each side of the navel. This point is called stomach 25(St-25). The foot twist is on the large toe on the termination of the spleen meridian. The stomach meridian is yin/earth and the spleen meridian is yang/earth so you get a yin/yang attack. You also get three earth points(two stomach, and one spleen) so you have the makings of a KO. The stomach points should be struck down and out toward the outside of the body. The spleen point should be twisted with the foot.

As always the next move in a kata shows you what to do if your movement did not work as expected. When you attack the stomach points the body will bend and drop down placing the head around the area of the "fold" for the down block movement. Look closely at the position of the hands in the fold. They are perfect to grab the head at two key pressure points that release the muscles of the neck. The left(top) hand grabs the hair on the opposite side and digs the knuckles in at Gall Bladder 20(GB-20) which is located just under the occipitial bone about three finger widths away from the spine. The bottom hand crosses under the head and taps(strikes) the jaw at stomach 4(St-4). The down block and turn is executed and you can imagine what happens. The step and punch completes the technique and would be overkill.

Just the tip of the iceberg of how pressure points enhance the study of kata.

Let the questions commence!!!

Scott
[/QUOTE]

A couple of quick questions off the top of my head:

1) When you use the "ready position" to strike your opponent in ST-25, what prevents his forehead from breaking your nose as he doubles over?

2) Unless he has size 30 feet, how is his spleen meridian close enough for you to twist your foot on top of it while extending your arms to strike ST-25?

3) What are you stepping and punching at after you've already broken the attacker's neck and thrown him to the ground?

4) Do you truly believe that every movement in kata is a technique?

5) Do you truly believe that the motions of kata should be interpretted as a linear sequence of techniques?

--JA

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#107799 - 07/10/01 04:39 PM Re: Taikyoku Shodan...A beginners Kata?!?
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
John-san,

Good questions!

You wrote:
[1) When you use the "ready position" to strike your opponent in ST-25, what prevents his forehead from breaking your nose as he doubles over? ]

View the attack as a push.
The effect of attacking St-25 on both sides does not cause him to bow, but causes a autonomic reaction for the legs & hips to kick back lowering the head.

[2) Unless he has size 30 feet, how is his spleen meridian close enough for you to twist your foot on top of it while extending your arms to strike ST-25?]

The spleen point in the toe is an example of a combination that will produce a KO. You could easily reach it in a grapping/trapping situation. I have one such KO from a front bear hug that activates the spleen on the foot and one on each side of the ribs.

[3) What are you stepping and punching at after you've already broken the attacker's neck and thrown him to the ground?]

You are continuing the twisting of the neck, if he has not already gone to the ground.

[4) Do you truly believe that every movement in kata is a technique? ]

Not only do I believe it I preach it and demonstrate it in seminars that I teach all over the place. Not only is that every movenent in kata a technique, but each movement has many, many applications. The previous post is just one example for that move set. As a rule there are at least three levels for each move. I have been bunkai'ing Naihanchi(Tekki) for the last six years and have not quit getting information out of it.

[5) Do you truly believe that the motions of kata should be interpretted as a linear sequence of techniques? ]

I feel that kata bunkai is a very deep study, katas tell us many things about pressure points, polarity, using sound with strikes, weaknesses/strengths of the human body, breath control, qigong. In short everthing you need is in the katas.

If you can get a hold of a pre-1922 copy Funakoshi-sensei's book Ryukyu Kempo Karate-Do(very rare) you will see him bunkai'ng the kata using pressure points. After 1922 it was re-issued without a partner and no information on PP's.

Scott

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#107800 - 07/11/01 11:44 AM Re: Taikyoku Shodan...A beginners Kata?!?
KenpoSecrets Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/02/01
Posts: 20
dudes... i totally agree with scott... and i too do a lot with kata, and even our kenpo forms have meanings not even considered by so many high ranks. yes, every move is a technique... just because you cant see it right now, doesnt mean that it isnt... and no, theyre not necessarily meant to be linear... they can be used in any order... in my opinion, the order is arbitrary in the form itself... they could be done in any order, or even in individual techniques... but the problem with techs is you tend to stick to just the one application, and in the forms, youre almost forced to be constantly guessing what the move could be... thats how i do it... i treat every move like i dont know what it's meant for... then i see what it could be doing... so, a punch turns into an elbow, or a forearm, or wrist strike, etc... a chamber turns into a hair grab, wrist grab, back elbow, wrist release, whipping back knuckle, thumb rake to the eye, a ripping claw to the face, a kidney tear, etc... get the idea of a punch or chamber out of your mind... itll help you see what the move could be used for... do that with everything in your forms...

sean.

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#107801 - 07/11/01 03:31 PM Re: Taikyoku Shodan...A beginners Kata?!?
John Anthony Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/01
Posts: 28
Loc: Pottstown, PA, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kempoman:
John-san,

Good questions!

You wrote:
[1) When you use the "ready position" to strike your opponent in ST-25, what prevents his forehead from breaking your nose as he doubles over? ]

View the attack as a push.
The effect of attacking St-25 on both sides does not cause him to bow, but causes a autonomic reaction for the legs & hips to kick back lowering the head.]

JA reply:
I don't buy it. In order for the legs and hips to kick back, you're going to have to put enough force into your double strike to reverse the opponent's forward momentum. Otherwise, he'll still fold into you. Also, your arms will have to be significantly longer than his inasmuch as you're striking at a downward angle while he's pushing straight on. The distancing is not right. It might work in a seminar with a compliant partner, but it's certainly not a technique I would attempt under real conditions.

[2) Unless he has size 30 feet, how is his spleen meridian close enough for you to twist your foot on top of it while extending your arms to strike ST-25?]

The spleen point in the toe is an example of a combination that will produce a KO. You could easily reach it in a grapping/trapping situation. I have one such KO from a front bear hug that activates the spleen on the foot and one on each side of the ribs.]

JA reply:
That may be. I was asking how you reached his foot while simultaneously double-punching to his midsection (that was your original explanation). Again, the distancing doesn't work.

[3) What are you stepping and punching at after you've already broken the attacker's neck and thrown him to the ground?]

You are continuing the twisting of the neck, if he has not already gone to the ground.]

JA reply:
You mean the first 3/4 twist of the neck might not be sufficient to maim or kill the attacker? Seems like overkill to me.

[4) Do you truly believe that every movement in kata is a technique? ]

Not only do I believe it I preach it and demonstrate it in seminars that I teach all over the place. Not only is that every movenent in kata a technique, but each movement has many, many applications. The previous post is just one example for that move set. As a rule there are at least three levels for each move. I have been bunkai'ing Naihanchi(Tekki) for the last six years and have not quit getting information out of it.]

JA reply:
Has it ever occurred to you that some movements in kata may be transitional or set-up movements or may be designed to help the practitioner develop necessary attributes such as balance, focus, proper use of koshi, etc.?

[5) Do you truly believe that the motions of kata should be interpretted as a linear sequence of techniques? ]

I feel that kata bunkai is a very deep study, katas tell us many things about pressure points, polarity, using sound with strikes, weaknesses/strengths of the human body, breath control, qigong. In short everthing you need is in the katas.

If you can get a hold of a pre-1922 copy Funakoshi-sensei's book Ryukyu Kempo Karate-Do(very rare) you will see him bunkai'ng the kata using pressure points. After 1922 it was re-issued without a partner and no information on PP's.

JA reply:
I believe that every movement in kata has a purpose but that they need not be techniques. In fact, most of the movements are NOT techniques in and of themselves but are only the component movements from which techniques can be constructed.

It's true that many practitioners look at kata in a simplistic way - all punching and kicking. It's my opinion, however, that the notion that everything is a pressure point strike is equally simplistic albeit at the opposite extreme.

I would be interested in your thoughts on using sounds with strikes. I've heard of this before but have never personally met any teachers (including senseis Sekichi Odo, Seiyu Oyata, and Shian Toma) who give much credence to the idea. Nor has my teacher who in addition to the masters named above, has also trained for extended periods with Hohan Soken, Shiguro Nakazato, Fusei Kise, Masanobu Kina, and Shoshin Nagamine.

--JA



[This message has been edited by John Anthony (edited 07-11-2001).]

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#107802 - 07/11/01 03:35 PM Re: Taikyoku Shodan...A beginners Kata?!?
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
Great point Sean.

To begin to really find the techniques in kata you must first forget most everything that you were taught. Everything is a clue. I love the way that some of the chinese systems name techniques and movements. I think that we would have caught on faster if this was the case in karate/kempo/kenpo[although SGM Parker did a great job at not pidgeon-holeing stuff].

If they would have named low-block something like "Purple monkey steals the grape", it would help people see past the word "BLOCK". This "BLOCK" can be at least 15 different techniques.

I feel that the bottom line is that we should move kata from the cheap belt-promotion requirement, to the system teaching tool that it was designed to be. As a matter of fact I feel that you could effectively teach an entire system of "Karate/Kempo/Kenpo" with just one kata!

oops...looks like I've done it now. Let the stones fly!!!

Scott

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#107803 - 07/11/01 04:30 PM Re: Taikyoku Shodan...A beginners Kata?!?
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
[I don't buy it. In order for the legs and hips to kick back, you're going to have to put enough force into your double strike to reverse the opponent's forward momentum. Otherwise, he'll still fold into you. Also, your arms will have to be significantly longer than his inasmuch as you're striking at a downward angle while he's pushing straight on. The distancing is not right. It might work in a seminar with a compliant partner, but it's certainly not a technique I would attempt under real conditions.]

You would be assuming that I am going to stand and stay static in front of him. There is a saying from an old internal arts master that "One ounce deflects a thousand pounds). With a slight turn you can all but negate his force, and if you look at the motion there is a small twist of the hips and shoulders before the hands go out. Also I'm not asking you to buy it, I am saying that it works for me. It certainly works better than blocking a low kick, and punching the solar plexus over and over.
As far as force goes he will supply the needed force. When using kyusho, you should not strike any harder that the strike of a 10-year old boy.

[That may be. I was asking how you reached his foot while simultaneously double-punching to his midsection (that was your original explanation). Again, the distancing doesn't work.]

See above for a way. When you yield he will come in the distance will be closer. You can never assume that any technique is fail-safe(whether brute force smacking or pressure point manipulation). You must always go with wha you get.

[Has it ever occurred to you that some movements in kata may be transitional or set-up movements or may be designed to help the practitioner develop necessary attributes such as balance, focus, proper use of koshi, etc.?]

Absolutely, when I say a technique these are definately included. Some motions simply point out with one hand where you are to be striking/grabbing/tickling with the other hand.

[I believe that every movement in kata has a purpose but that they need not be techniques. In fact, most of the movements are NOT techniques in and of themselves but are only the component movements from which techniques can be constructed.

It's true that many practitioners look at kata in a simplistic way - all punching and kicking. It's my opinion, however, that the notion that everything is a pressure point strike is equally simplistic albeit at the opposite extreme.]

Again, we agree. Many things that I have learned from kata have nothing to do with pressure point strikes. I think that we should seek balance in all things. Pressure points are not the elusive "Sliced Bread". They are only a tool that can be added to help our techniques to be more effective.

Scott

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#107804 - 07/12/01 11:01 AM Re: Taikyoku Shodan...A beginners Kata?!?
KenpoSecrets Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/02/01
Posts: 20
JA... i personally think that youre getting a little aggressive here... it's ok to question, and it's even ok to not agree with something, but man... lighten up...

however, i do have a couple constructive comments too... first off, i know both the move, and the application that scott's talking about with the double fists, and you have to realize the difference in attacks... one of the things i preach about quite a bit on my site, is understanding what the attack really is, and what the dangers are... in this case, a push, too many students (and instructors alike) confuse a push with a tackle. they take a few steps back and put this huge amount of force behind it... like someone's going to just stand there and watch you rev up for that... a push doesnt have to have your entire body weight behind it... many times a push is just one of those punking type pushes where theyre just trying to start something... for a really really hard push, youre much better getting off-line... i know for a fact that scott doesnt have one of those really hard pushes in mind... the stance is wrong... however, ive personally seen this done quite often again a lapel grab, or choke... does that suit your needs a little better??

also, you may think that some moves in kata are only basics that can make up techniques, but i usually find that that stems from mis-interpretation of the moves in the kata... i know i used to have moves that i thought were just random basics thrown in the middle of 2 techniques, or a random piece of footwork, but once i learned what to look for, i saw that those pieces were really part of one of the techniques in the kata... they werent random at all... let me ask you a logical question though... if you have a random basic in your kata, what purpose would it have there if not to be a technique?? just to force you to practice it?? thats not usually the case at all...

this is why i was saying earlier that you were getting too aggressive about this whole thing... it doesnt seem to me that youre really interested in learning, or discussing... if you were, instead of spending all your time telling scott that his technique against a push is crap, you wouldve thought to yourself, is it possible this really is a technique... i dont think i could do it against a hard push, but maybe something similar... and having the stellar knowledge of points that im sure you have, you already know that those points are more active when the arms are up, so you would simply devise something with a little less motion, like a choke... and if youre still concerned about the foot, then put yourself against a wall for now until youre more used to it... thats all im saying... if you were really interested in learning, youd take more things into consideration before you told someone that they didnt know what they were doing... and you can argue all you like, thats really what you were saying whether you said it or not... ive known scott for going on 2yrs now, and hes never fed me any B.S. applications... he and i have talked at great length about a many of topics, and have exchanged many bodily fluids (just kidding)... but seriously...

one of the things i find very interesting, is that most guys dont think much about their katas... they dont use them, they only perform them for their rank, but if you talk bad about the kata, then theyre all of a sudden up in arms...

JA, may i be so bold as to ask your style... if you couldnt tell, im a kenpo guy myself...
as far as sound goes, ive got a tape i shot just 2mo ago, of jim corn doing a sound KO on one of his students... very impressive to see... as well as a pretty decent no-touch...

hey scott... i know a lot of dki have been talking about the fact that a lot of the no-touch stuff isnt practical... how about in a hold-up situation... he tells you to raise your hands, and you do.. only youre so good at projecting your chi, that he starts to get dizzy, and you overtake him... has anyone thought of that application yet... just a thought i had...

later dudes...
sean.

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#107805 - 07/12/01 11:27 AM Re: Taikyoku Shodan...A beginners Kata?!?
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
Sean,

Good application for the no-touch. I am getting some good results, but its draining my kidney energy to practice too much. I think I've got some ideas. I am trying to make it to the next summer camp to get some more info. This past camp George did two no-touches that took less than one second to work.

As far as the push/shove/tackle goes you're exactly right. I mean a push like when a fight usually starts. There are many other moves to handle a tackle. Good catch on the uke's arms being up, it makes the KO so much easier. If they grab it gets even better because they have already shorted themselves out for you.

I might be coming to the Dallas area in August for some training and system review. I'll let you know the dates.

Scott

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#107806 - 07/12/01 04:28 PM Re: Taikyoku Shodan...A beginners Kata?!?
John Anthony Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/01
Posts: 28
Loc: Pottstown, PA, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by KenpoSecrets:
JA... i personally think that youre getting a little aggressive here... it's ok to question, and it's even ok to not agree with something, but man... lighten up...]

Sorry that I've come off as too aggressive; that was not my intent. It was just that Scott described an application in which he was striking an opponent with both arms extended while simultaneously stepping on his foot. I didn't understand how this could be possible inasmuch as my own feet are not as long as my arms. [IMG]http://bbs.fightingarts.com/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] Scott has since unlinked the two motions which makes more sense.

[however, i do have a couple constructive comments too... first off, i know both the move, and the application that scott's talking about with the double fists, and you have to realize the difference in attacks... one of the things i preach about quite a bit on my site, is understanding what the attack really is, and what the dangers are... in this case, a push, too many students (and instructors alike) confuse a push with a tackle. they take a few steps back and put this huge amount of force behind it... like someone's going to just stand there and watch you rev up for that... a push doesnt have to have your entire body weight behind it... many times a push is just one of those punking type pushes where theyre just trying to start something... for a really really hard push, youre much better getting off-line... i know for a fact that scott doesnt have one of those really hard pushes in mind... the stance is wrong... however, ive personally seen this done quite often again a lapel grab, or choke... does that suit your needs a little better??]

I agree that understanding the nature of the attack is important. In a court of law, use of martial arts is considered the same as the use of firearms - your use of force must be commensurate to that of your opponent, and if you go knocking someone out (and they fall and hit their head) because all he did was give you a punkish push, you'll likely find yourself in a lot of trouble.

Nevertheless, in my training, I emphasize protecting your own body, and striking low with both hands leaves your own face open. In Europe, head-butts are a popular type of attack. It seemed to me that Scott's application ran the risk of accomplishing the very same thing on the attacker's behalf. When you strike the body low, it tends to fold in half (we see this type of technique demonstrated in Kusanku and Passai with the difference that, as opposed to Scott's technique, you have an elbow waiting for the opponent's face). If the opponent's hips are to move back enough to take his head out of range where it might hit your face, then the strike (and the opponent's reaction to it) must sufficiently displace his center of gravity. This would require a fairly strong strike even against a punking push (and would again open you to the liability of excessive force as mentioned earlier). There's a difference between doing these things in the dojo or at a seminar and doing them under real conditions. However, if you guys say you can do it, I'll have to take you at your word. I'm just saying I'm unconvinced.

[also, you may think that some moves in kata are only basics that can make up techniques, but i usually find that that stems from mis-interpretation of the moves in the kata... i know i used to have moves that i thought were just random basics thrown in the middle of 2 techniques, or a random piece of footwork, but once i learned what to look for, i saw that those pieces were really part of one of the techniques in the kata... they werent random at all... let me ask you a logical question though... if you have a random basic in your kata, what purpose would it have there if not to be a technique?? just to force you to practice it?? thats not usually the case at all...]

Kata teaches many things besides techniques. Attributes such as balance, movement, focus, concentration, coordination between different parts of the body, compression and expansion of koshi, etc., etc. Moreover, a movement from one kata may be combined with movements from other katas to produce techniques. To say "only basics" is to miss the point of basics. *Everything* consists of basics. The trick is learning how to use them to produce effective techniques.

[this is why i was saying earlier that you were getting too aggressive about this whole thing... it doesnt seem to me that youre really interested in learning, or discussing... if you were, instead of spending all your time telling scott that his technique against a push is crap, you wouldve thought to yourself, is it possible this really is a technique... i dont think i could do it against a hard push, but maybe something similar...]

I've been taught to question everything I'm told. The fact that I'm not ready to swallow whole the notion that Taiyoku shodan is the deadliest kata known to man doesn't mean that I didn't consider the possibility that it really is. In Karatedo Kyohan, Funakoshi himself says that Taiyoku shodan is an elementary kata designed to teach new students basic movement and as an introduction to the more advanced kata. (Admittedly, he also says that it's the "ultimate" kata for advanced practitioners but here I believe he was talking about the ultimately impossible task of trying to perfect even the most basic techniques. Of course I could be wrong [IMG]http://bbs.fightingarts.com/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]) Shoshin Nagamine (founder of Matsubayashi Shorin-ryu) and Chojun Myagi (founder of Goju-ryu) also claimed that Taiyoku shodan (they called it Fukyugata Ichi) was developed to teach to new students because the classical katas were too difficult for new students to learn. You must remember that Taiyoku shodan is a modern kata; it's not one of the classical old katas such as Naihanchi, Passai, Seisan, etc.

It's possible to reverse engineer almost any application into almost any kata sequence. In fact, I could claim that the simple act of walking - swinging my right hand forward as my left foot goes forward - represents a strike to the groin with a simultaneous activation of the spleen point. (Another devastating technique, don't you think? [IMG]http://bbs.fightingarts.com/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG])

[and having the stellar knowledge of points that im sure you have,]

Now who's being aggressive? I never made a personal attack on Scott; I only said that I didn't buy his application and tried to point out the reasons why. Scott noted that it wasn't his concern whether or not I bought it because it works for him. He's quite correct on that point, I respect him for telling me so.

[you already know that those points are more active when the arms are up, so you would simply devise something with a little less motion, like a choke... and if youre still concerned about the foot, then put yourself against a wall for now until youre more used to it... thats all im saying... if you were really interested in learning, youd take more things into consideration before you told someone that they didnt know what they were doing... and you can argue all you like, thats really what you were saying whether you said it or not... ive known scott for going on 2yrs now, and hes never fed me any B.S. applications... he and i have talked at great length about a many of topics, and have exchanged many bodily fluids (just kidding)... but seriously...]

Again, I didn't tell Scott that he doesn't know what he's doing, I was merely trying to point out the problems I saw with the application. Apparently, you and he don't have those problems, and that's fine, more power to you. You needn't castigate me, however, simply because I'm not willing to accept everything I'm told without question. There's too much blind obedience in the martial arts as it is.

[one of the things i find very interesting, is that most guys dont think much about their katas... they dont use them, they only perform them for their rank, but if you talk bad about the kata, then theyre all of a sudden up in arms...]

As you seem to be about my questioning. Actually, kata has been the focus of my training for the past 15 years. (I'm too old for the sport stuff.)

[JA, may i be so bold as to ask your style... if you couldnt tell, im a kenpo guy myself...]

What kind of kenpo? American, Chinese, Okinawan, Ryukyu, Parker, Tracy??? Kenpo/kempo is a generic term simply meaning "fist art."

I consider my style as simply Okinawan karate. I started training in a Dillman school back in 1978-80. Back then, Dillman's only claim to fame was breaking ice with his elbow, and he taught a mishmash non-system that seemed to be loosely based on Isshin-ryu. From 1980-1990, I trained in Okinawan Seidokan whose katas are drawn from the Kyan line of Shorin-ryu and much of whose techniques are drawn from Motobu-ryu tuite. Since 1990, I've been training in Oyata sensei's Ryu-te (Ryukyu Kempo before Dillman appropriated the name). During the past 3 years I've also been involved in a study group with a number of Kishaba Juku Shorin-ryu practitioners. The school where I teach is still affiliated with Oyata, although I've personally withdrawn from his Association. Taika Oyata is an incredible martial artist, but I have a problem with the closed-mindedness of many of the Association members.

[as far as sound goes, ive got a tape i shot just 2mo ago, of jim corn doing a sound KO on one of his students... very impressive to see...as well as a pretty decent no-touch...]

I'd have to see it to believe it, and it would have to be done to a total stranger. Suggestion can be a powerful force, and what I call "true believers" are the most susceptible to suggestion.

[hey scott... i know a lot of dki have been talking about the fact that a lot of the no-touch stuff isnt practical... how about in a hold-up situation... he tells you to raise your hands, and you do.. only youre so good at projecting your chi, that he starts to get dizzy, and you overtake him... has anyone thought of that application yet... just a thought i had...]

Spoken like a true believer.

[later dudes...
sean.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, later dude.

--JA

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