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#107593 - 04/13/05 06:42 PM Back To Basics - Okinawan Karate Jutsu
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Guys,

Im interested in formulating a simple, authentic training routine that covers authentic okinawan karate. Regarding kata I would be interested in your views of the best fundemental forms relevant to the following -

shorin (shuri and tomari) eg nahanchi 1

naha te eg sanchin

I have my own ideas but would like the opinion of any long term paractioners of okinawan shorin or goju ryu etc etc.

Also any aspects of training that you know are authentic, ie conditioning (junbi and hojo undo)? kumite methods? Zazen?


Look forward to your thoughts

[This message has been edited by UKshorinryu (edited 04-13-2005).]

[This message has been edited by UKshorinryu (edited 04-13-2005).]

[This message has been edited by UKshorinryu (edited 04-13-2005).]

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#107594 - 04/13/05 11:30 PM Re: Back To Basics - Okinawan Karate Jutsu
Anonymous
Unregistered


http://www.karate.org.yu/articles/article_outline_of_okinawan_karatedo.htm
This web page as a outline of how okinawan karate was generally taught, along with what forms were basic and advanced. I hope this helps you formulate a training routine. Good luck with it.

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#107595 - 04/14/05 02:26 AM Re: Back To Basics - Okinawan Karate Jutsu
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thankyou agenT,

the site certainly is usefull from the shorin side, also interested in naha te. Im looking to train in 3 forms from each school, and it would be most usefull if they taught the 'essence' of each school (ie shorin and naha te), and in a structured manner.

Really interested in anyone who has trained long term or teaches either shorin or gojus opinion.

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#107596 - 04/14/05 04:19 AM Re: Back To Basics - Okinawan Karate Jutsu
Anonymous
Unregistered


The essence for the Naha school would be sanchin. Although naifanchi was initially brought into Okinawa through the Naha school, it is no longer continued in that tradition (Goju-Uechi-Toon-Ruyei-Kojo(?) ryu). Somehow it ended up as basic kata for Shorin-ryu (Shuri-te & Tomari-te).
As I belong to the Naha line I will only comment regarding sanchin. In essence they are the same but the execution is different in the specific styles.
Goju : 2 versions Miyagi sanchin and Higaonna sanchin, Higaonna sanchin is the most authentic (although closed hands).
Toon : the Higaonna sanchin but I do not know open or closed hands.(Any Toon practitioners on the forum ?)
Uechi : open hand, resembles the most the sanchin kata currently practised in China
Ruyei : never seen it but should be comparable to Toon or Goju-Higaonna sanchin.
Take your pick.

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#107597 - 04/14/05 08:33 AM Re: Back To Basics - Okinawan Karate Jutsu
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thankyou for the reply CCV, what would you class as a sensible nahate kata to follow sanchin, I only want 3 from each 'family' to keep things simple but want to represent the styles within those 3 kata.

Interesting point about nahanchi being naha te in origin, although i think the flavour is definatly shorin.

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#107598 - 04/14/05 09:26 AM Re: Back To Basics - Okinawan Karate Jutsu
Anonymous
Unregistered


UKshorinryu.

From a Goju point of view (my style) I would say sesan or kururunfa. They encompas in my opinion fighting tactics and techniques typically 'Goju' to the fullest.
To represent Toon it would be sesan sanseru or pechurin, take your pick. To represent Uechi I think sesan. Their sanseru looks extremely difficult in execution and understanding. So I am talking a bit out of ignorance. From an historical point of view, Uechi and Toon ryu represent the karate from beginning of the 20th century. Miyagi and/or Higaonna have changed some open hand practises into close hand. Do not know about Ruyei ryu but there is a DVD available by Sakomoto (former WKF world champion kata) with 6 kata.

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#107599 - 04/14/05 09:35 AM Re: Back To Basics - Okinawan Karate Jutsu
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks again,

here begins my problemm ! I need to keep this simple and representative of simply 2 'schools' - shorin (shuri and tomari)and naha te (lets assume goju as it is best presented in the west), max 3 katas from each.

So you would recommend the following goju kata -

sanchin
sesan
kururunfa

In that order? You think these would represent the goju tradition well?

I really appriciate your views, many thanks

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#107600 - 04/14/05 10:01 AM Re: Back To Basics - Okinawan Karate Jutsu
Anonymous
Unregistered


not clear on what your long-term goal is.

Are you planning on creating your own Ryu?
or are you hand-picking techniques from the MA 'grab-bag' in the hopes of gaining an understanding in a shorter amount of time?

sorry if I'm speaking above my position, but I would think that some of the people that have trained for decades in a particular style would be more than slightly put-off by the thought of someone looking to capture the essence of a style by grabbing a few of it's kata. Knowing how to play a few Jimi Hendrix songs, doesn't mean you can 'hear Jimi'.

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#107601 - 04/14/05 11:37 AM Re: Back To Basics - Okinawan Karate Jutsu
Anonymous
Unregistered


kara-atama, thankyou for your question - you have no need to worry!

I am simply forming in my mind a simple yet authentic program to teach at a small dojo representing Okinawan Karate Jutsu as a whole (well shorin, naha te and bo).

My ideal is to teach okinawan karate in an authentic manner, and present both the shorin and naha te styles via the kata.

To back this up I aim to have qualified teachers deliver the technical instruction on each school.

The idea of three katas represents, white belt, green belt and brown belt - one kata of each school for each grade.

At shodan the student is free to follow either ryu as they prefer or continue with both.

I have trained in shito ryu to dan grade and feel that both schools have things to offer and aim - to get back to basics, I am currently training in shorin ryu and will be sarting goju ryu soon to ensure my own knowledge and skill level is correct.

The main emphasis is to get away from analytical analysis and focus on good, solid, basic okinawan karate - hojo undo, jubi undo, basic kyusho and Tuite will all be taught. I have never bought into the my style is better than yours, and my reasearch shows that the early 1900s okinawans didnt either, cross training was happening then!

Look forward to your input

[This message has been edited by UKshorinryu (edited 04-14-2005).]

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#107602 - 04/14/05 03:46 PM Re: Back To Basics - Okinawan Karate Jutsu
Anonymous
Unregistered


IMHO on Goju: Seisan for green-belt is a bit too advanced. perhaps Seiunchin or Saifa.

look for katas with bunkai which takes opponents off balence prior to striking.

thats my 2 pennies. good luck.

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