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#107542 - 04/09/05 09:57 PM Animal names for kata?

I have never heard until recently, these Goju kata being refered to with animal names:

Saifa Monkey kata
Seiyunchin Tiger kata
Shisoshin Dragon kata
Kururunfa Praying mantis

Would anyone have the history behind where these names came from? I can't seem to find the origins.
Thanks in advance for your input.

#107543 - 04/11/05 05:06 AM Re: Animal names for kata?

I don't know how much influence Chinese MA have had on Goju, but that would be the place to start, as many Chinese styles mimic animal movements as martial technique.

#107544 - 04/11/05 03:21 PM Re: Animal names for kata?

quite a bit of influence... 100% depending how far you go back.
but what I'm saying is, for example, 'saifa' does not mean 'monkey' in Chinese, Okinawan or Japanese. When and who called it saifa and when and who called it monkey?

(I'm sensing this is a bonehead question, but humor me if you could....thanks)

#107545 - 04/11/05 06:43 PM Re: Animal names for kata?

I found this,but I didn't fint where they got the names from. Not a bonehead question,I'm curious too. [IMG][/IMG] I always related the katas to numbers/directions.

Where's the white crane kata??

#107546 - 04/12/05 04:01 AM Re: Animal names for kata?

This is an interesting topic, because American Kenpo also uses animal names in alot of techniques or strikes. For us though, some part of the technique or strike will resemble a movement or appendage that animal is known for. For example, our technique charging ram is so named because the attack involves someone trying to tackle or grab with the head down like a ram trying to butt something with its horns.

[This message has been edited by bushinoki (edited 04-12-2005).]

#107547 - 04/12/05 03:20 PM Re: Animal names for kata?

yes indded very interesting question but I realy do not know where did you got those names because as far as I know eg seyinchin is a dragon kata and shisochin a tiger kata, I know that the first 2 steps in kururunfa are refered to praying mantis but I am not sure about Saifa kata because eg. when you step into shiko dachi with the uraken thats a snake not monkey.

But a very interestng theme. Have a nice day cya

#107548 - 04/13/05 01:31 AM Re: Animal names for kata?

I've never heard of this. Could it simply be that someone wanted their kata to sound more Chinese & therefore more authentic?

#107549 - 04/13/05 04:48 AM Re: Animal names for kata?

most certainly a possibility as to where the animal names of these kata came from. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of that or anything else.

#107550 - 04/13/05 06:07 AM Re: Animal names for kata?

From Southern Chinese styles, many linked to animal forms, we can classify some kata names linked to these animal styles.
Crane : sanchin, sanseiru, niseishi, happoren, nepai .
Tiger : sanchin, sanseiru, peichurin(suparinpei)
Dragon : sanchin, seisan, peichurin, sepai
Dog : sanchin sanseiru
Monk fist : sanchin, seisan, jutte, sepai, useishi(gojushiho), peichurin
Lion: sanchin, seisan
Know that crane style was build from monk fist and blended with tiger style. I gues these styles have played the most imported role in Karate from around 1825 - 1930.(The building period of the current known most popular styles)
The execution for a simular named kata can be very different. E.g. sanseru in Goju or Uechi ryu is not comparable. I could relate to pointing to these animal names as refernce to their origin but I think a more detailed explenation would be impossible as some of the kata's origin are unknown (e.g. saifa) and there can not be found a style still practising a simular named kata in some cases.(e.g.kururunfa, seiyunchin).
So, in reference of an animal movement does not do it for me without identifying an authentic art executing a form with a simular name. Once that established you could analyse the movements for simularities. That's what I would like to see when kata are identified with animal named styles.

#107551 - 04/13/05 10:05 AM Re: Animal names for kata?
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5844
Loc: USA

Whats even more interesting is that although the NAMES are linking to animal styles.

The NAMES THEMSELVES, in goju/uechi/naha style kata anyway-are NUMBERS-most of them anyway.

Seisan-13 etc...

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