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#107514 - 04/08/05 02:31 PM Channan Kata
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello,

I am looking for information on the Channan Kata, which was the Kata used to inspire the Pinan set,.

Red

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#107515 - 04/08/05 02:41 PM Re: Channan Kata
Anonymous
Unregistered



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#107516 - 04/09/05 06:37 AM Re: Channan Kata
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks for the reply, I have the book by Dr Schmiesser, I have been looking for alternate sources to substantiate the forms shown in the book, I have a friendwho travels to Okinawa he has been checking, so far his Sensei there says it is not much done anymore,he is not sure who still does it, but that is atleast a good lead, alsowaiting for a man in Australia to send me the forms his org did/does eith written out or on tape.. any other suggestions will be gladly accepted : )

Red

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#107517 - 04/09/05 08:33 AM Re: Channan Kata
Anonymous
Unregistered


ive been trying to see what this Channan kata looks like, mind makign a video mpeg and posting it ?

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#107518 - 04/09/05 11:57 AM Re: Channan Kata
Anonymous
Unregistered


I would be glad to if I get a copy to convert, I do know that Dr Schmiesser has his Channan on Video but I havn't had the extra $ to get it yet. Maybe someone here has his Vid and can post the Katas? when I get my copy from Australia we can compare them!

b

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#107519 - 04/14/05 04:43 AM Re: Channan Kata
Anonymous
Unregistered


Later this year I will be releasing a publication that explores the roots of pinan kata. This will be the conclusions of a ten year in-depth study of the forms, their, development by Itosu and evolution from the Chinamans style he modelled them upon.

The work also offers a refreshing theory upon the development of Shorin Ryu karate styles that has never before been documented.

In all the time I've been researching the forms I've never found a convincing or 'authentic' beyond doubt version of the channan kata. Speculation suggests their could be two forms though many believe it to be one.

It's possible that Chokki Motobu knew the form, at least it is stated that he recognised it from some of Itosu's students practicing Pinan.

There is a form practiced by Chosei Motobu (son of Chokki Motobu) named Shiraguma No Kata that might possibly be Channan though I suspect its another 'variant'. Pursuing this line of enquiry became tiresome and misleading.

Most likely the actual form Itosu learnt is now lost; Miyagi once expressed that this is a fate shared by many ‘old’ forms when masters found no suitable successors. Further to this many old forms were evolved like the Pinan were from Channan so making practice of the former version obsolete. At the heart of the matter what is really important is whether the original intentions, philosophies and strategies of the form are continued and in Pinan I believe they are. It is hoped that my work will shed light upon these and help others to enrich their own understanding of their art.

Wishing good health,

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#107520 - 04/14/05 10:03 AM Re: Channan Kata
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
Joel

When you publish, how can I get a copy??

One of the harder things for me to get used to was that there seem to have been no actual "offical" version of any one kata.

By that I mean it seems that the "old masters" tailored kata to fit the student--much as they still do in China.
So each of the masters students would have "different" versions of the same kata.

I understand the reasoning and the logic behind it--just irks me that I can't really go and look up what the "uber" kata looked like.

I have to comapare and contrast the various versions practiced by each student-then compare.

Which to be honest is kinda fun.

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#107521 - 04/14/05 08:34 PM Re: Channan Kata
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ive been researching pinan katas for quite some time. I was actually thinking of starting a karate class and just teaching the pinan style. Do you have a website ? I cant wait to get a mpeg of schem. channan kata.

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#107522 - 04/16/05 04:29 PM Re: Channan Kata
still wadowoman Offline
Improved beefier techno-prat

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 3420
Loc: Residence:UK- Heart:Md, USA
I would also be very interested once this is published.
Sharon

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#107523 - 04/19/05 09:06 PM Re: Channan Kata
Anonymous
Unregistered


This is a really excellent topic.

If I may I would like to throw in a few bullet points that don't really substantiate anything, but may be of interest to some.

First and foremost Joel, you are to be commended for such a study. I can't imagine the amount of effort you have exerted on behalf of your art. I too should very much want to obtain a copy of your manuscript upon publishing.

Your thoughts on Channan being "held" by Motobu Chosei are thoughts that have occured to me as well. Several conversations with Motobu Sensei(not my instructor, but I have had the priveledge of training with him periodically) have alluded to veiled implications that he and some seniors may practice what seems to be Channan or a derivative. Alas, I am not part of that circle.

Sanchin: I have known of a least one instructor who was schooled in Shuri-te, that based the entirety of his teachings upon Kata Kusanku. Being that many believe that the Pinan's are Kusanku deconstructed, this idea is not that far fetched.

Keep in mind that many old Okinawans beleived that kata such as Kusanku, Passai, and Naihanchi were complete fighting systems. This is my long winded way of saying that an entire curriculum based on Pinan's may be a good way to fight. Let us know how this turns out.

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