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#107463 - 04/05/05 12:10 AM Re: Sanseru bunkai
Anonymous
Unregistered


Sanchin,

As you describe can be applied if you take in preceding chudan uke to block and grasp simultaniously mae-geri followed with the hiji-ate to the elbow pulling his wrist with other arm.

If you block with the hiji-ate (on the outside of his arm) then grab the wrist and gyaku-zuki on muscle above his elbow or pushing arm forward, a bit down and punch on muscle before elbow, can also be very painfull (my sensei's technique).

[This message has been edited by CVV (edited 04-05-2005).]

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#107464 - 04/05/05 06:37 AM Re: Sanseru bunkai
Anonymous
Unregistered


sanchin,
Another likely application I found completely by chance while reading an article. It needs no words to explain. look at the picture referenced from Motobu's book "Okinawa Kempo: Karate-Jutsu On Kumite" in this article: http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=212

when I see stuff like this it provides yet another example of the cross-pollenation that was probably going on at the time ...which has always led me to believe that people trying to trace down where what came from is a speculative exercise at best.

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#107465 - 04/05/05 07:41 AM Re: Sanseru bunkai
Anonymous
Unregistered


Kara,
it is that move I described in the first post regarding the subject. Although Motobu's application is done from naihanchi-dachi but it's the same principle.

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#107466 - 04/05/05 08:05 AM Re: Sanseru bunkai
Anonymous
Unregistered


sorry CVV, your right.
I needed a picture to see it.
couple of other notes:
The block-counter is probably done almost simultaneous in this application (as in the kata).

The foot is in perfect position for the sweep!

I'd say I have learned the wrong bunkai for this since this one that CVV has pointed out makes alot more sense and matches the actual kata.

Thank-you! (bows)

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#107467 - 04/05/05 08:46 AM Re: Sanseru bunkai
Anonymous
Unregistered


Do you think it is possible that this technique/principle developed independantly?

first thru Shuri-Te -> (Motobu's naihanchi-dachi)

and perhaps later 're-discovered' thru Miyagi (via RuRuKo ~1916)

?

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#107468 - 04/06/05 12:33 AM Re: Sanseru bunkai
Anonymous
Unregistered


Miyagi knew naihanchi kata. He describes it in his 'Outline of Karate-do' as one of the basic kata together with sanchin and tensho.
Miyagi and Motobu knew each other well too. But I doubt they ever trained together.
Naihanchi kata is brought to Okinawa by Iwah/Ason ?
Sanseru is imported into Okinawa through Fuzhou chuan fa (crane/tiger/monk fist).
Apperently Seisho Aragaki already knew a version before Kanryo Higaonna started teaching it (but he has been a student of Aragaki). Certainly Kanryu Higaonna, Kanei Ueichi and Norisato teached a version of Sanseru beginning 20th centurie, all originating from Fuzhou. I am certain that all of them knew Naifanchi. But I do not think that there is a direct connection in the applications.
Application of techniques from kata is limited to your imagination. I heard from Kisaki sensei and from Uchiage sensei that Miyagi never teached official bunkai, as a sequence of attack-defense movements, for kata. He would explain techniques from kata but as for application he said 'think, you will figure it out on your own'.

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