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#106627 - 11/25/04 05:00 AM Re: Kata-Shadow Boxing
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH

The truth is there are no rules. 30 and 40 years ago schools changed arts just because a new movie made something more popular. Groups went overnight from karate to TKD to Kung Fu and so on, and got away with it because there are no fast definitions.

80 years ago karate began vast mutation when it moved to Japan. The concept of kata became more exercise than self defense toolbox. Of course on Okinawa, for the first few decades of one's training it still may have been mostly an exercise regieme. The evidence seems to suggest Karate was not developed for short term focus (as how fast can you make somebody street lethal).

With such diverse approaches its no wonder seeing kata as a form of shadow boxing exists, and why everyone should create their own forms is popular.

I think it's fine whatever approach others want to take, especially if they don't believe in what I do and don't practice it. Course I'm selfish, I only care about those I train.

And there's nothing saying they're wrong in their answers. In the long run its what you work hard at, forever.

I do believe in a more traditional approach to kata, but even at that I have studied different answers how karate kata can be utilized, from original just a group drills, from kata as a means to menominically remember hundreds of techniques, to kata as a true toolbox with infinate variations.

All of the answers can work.

Where you draw your lines defines what you are. Let others draw their own lines. And how does it hurt if the ones you draw actually turn out to work better in the long run?

Well getting time to 'bunkai' a Turkey today.

Gobble Gobble,

Victor Smith

#106628 - 11/25/04 10:37 AM Re: Re: Kata-Shadow Boxing
Alejandro Offline

Registered: 05/02/02
Posts: 940
Loc: Las Cruces, NM USA
Thanks Victor, great post!

Mmm, the turkey's starting to smell delicious!

Happy Thanksgiving!


#106629 - 11/30/04 10:08 PM Re: Re: Kata-Shadow Boxing

I don't know what I would be learning if not for kata! Might as well go to a kickboxing school. My Sensei strictly sticks to Kata , There has never been a technique taught that was not out of a kata. Drills and everything - Kata. Thats just how we do it though.. Besides Tatsuo's Kumite , which are just a few techniques that were favored by Master Shimabuku and put in Isshin-do.

Fun thing we do :
We sqaure up in a regular natural stance. One will throw a punch or kick , the other defends with a move out of any Kata they know. Then switch , once it gets going , and you get used to it , its pretty fun. Its very hard to get used to though!


#106630 - 12/04/04 09:01 PM Re: Re: Kata-Shadow Boxing

Haha Alejandro. I believe i have had the same interaction with this particular karate ka as well. My view point.

Admires bruce lee too much. He didnt believe in "style" so he never encorporated it. Dont get me wrong i love bruce lee for all his accomplishments and things, but someone who tries to mimic that in my eyes is just nutts! Especially if they are relatively unexperienced in their art. "Creating" a kata per test will accomplish nothing. There are many valuable things you learn from kata. They werent meant for you to be on the street and run a kata while 8 attackers come after you, but meant to teach you things. There are times where you may be sparring or someone tries to grab you or hurt you, that you use a move from a kata (ie.. breaking a hold) There are stories on the internet.. I saw one it said "how a move from tensho saved my life"

Once you start "creating katas" and i use katas loosely.. once you start doing this, epsecially the students. They are going to be trying to take it to the next step. How can the instructor, or anyone critique a form that no one else knows. If they are expected to create a form for each belt. Are they sure they will remember the forms for the last belt. After all it was made up and will be considered "open form" There will start to be a lot of useless techniques and strikes and mounting (LOL).. Alejandro will probably understand that one. haha!

"I was practicing kata with the nunchaku the other day..." should of asked this particular karate-ka to start over and explain the interpretation of each and every technique he has done.. Other than that all they're doing as you said is free exercise, doing nothing but getting themself tired.

#106631 - 12/05/04 05:29 AM Re: Re: Kata-Shadow Boxing

The closer I look at kata, paticularly Sho Rin, in addition to self defense applications in themselves, seem to be the movements of critical moments of flow drills. I can see a kata being worked on during a session, and then the flow drills run through.


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