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#105997 - 07/28/04 01:22 AM Pinan Yondan bunkai

Hi, first time on these forums and I really like everyones insight onto bunkai and meaning of katas. Anyway I'd like to start by saying a practice a version of Shito-Ryu (kotaka-ha) where bunkai is a little hard to find because it has been slightly modified/stylized for competition. But it is still very possible to work bunkai.

Anyway the first two sets of movements, I have worked out to be many things; Armbars, grab/strike to armpit, throws, breaks etc. Additional insight would be nice =D.

However I have questions about some areas of the kata. Such as the downward scissor block followed by an augumented block, probably a block the a downward uraken to the nose? Dunno. Then the middle movements, the sidehammer, kick. The intermediate set for those movements where both hands rest at the side, I don't really know how it fits in. But the set of 3 reinforced outside blocks I really have no idea.

Well if anyone has any insight to add it'd be great, thanks everyone.

#105998 - 07/28/04 10:46 AM Re: Pinan Yondan bunkai
PETER Offline

Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 239
However I have questions about some areas of the kata. Such as the downward scissor block followed by an augumented block, probably a block the a downward uraken to the nose? Dunno. Then the middle movements, the sidehammer, kick. The intermediate set for those movements where both hands rest at the side, I don't really know how it fits in. But the set of 3 reinforced outside blocks I reall have no idea. Well if anyone has any insight to add it'd be great, thanks everyone.

When your hands are at one side that is because his head is in there. If the hands are on the right side , your right hand is on the chin and your left hand is on the top of his head gripping his hair, when you step out and do a downward cross block you are leaving his body back and breaking the neck by crossing over into the downward double block. Augmented blocks are this. The hand that does the block is actually grabbing the head and lifting the head back exposing the throat, the so called supporting hand is a punch to the throat.After you do the augmented block with the interpretation I gave you imagine you don't get a clean shot because he reacts differently then you want. You have a hold of his hair with your right hand, you draw his head to the right side, sliding your right hand under his chin and your left on top of his head. He is now side ways in front of you. when you chamber for the side kick it is actually a knee to his torso, then you side kick to the leg. The hammer is actually you lifting his head up to execute the elbow smash to the face. Their is a little more detail involved, but see if you understand what I am saying and we can discuss it further.


#105999 - 07/28/04 03:34 PM Re: Pinan Yondan bunkai
goldencrane Offline

Registered: 02/23/04
Posts: 432
Loc: Kansas City Kansas USA
The downward scissor block could also be the "jujitsu" throw using the hand at the "fold" point of the kata.

The sidehammer kick, could also be you holding the attackers arm, while sidekicking them in the ribs.

as for the three reinforced blocks if your right arm is the block and you left hand is near the right elbow, this could be you having a hold of thier right hand with your left, and using the outward block with the right to hyper extend thier elbow.

Again, these are some of the different bunkai that we use. easier to demonstrate than explain in words.

#106000 - 07/28/04 07:38 PM Re: Pinan Yondan bunkai
kakushiite Offline

Registered: 02/06/03
Posts: 266
Loc: Ithaca, NY, USA

I can use the opening of Pinan Yondan 15 different ways. I like to think of its basic elements this way. Handís up high, pivot to the left then back to the right, drop the hands and weight while pivoting back to the left (the scissors block). These are basic movements where you can leverage twisting mass followed by dropping mass. The high hands protect the head and attack the head and arms to the head. The drop of both hands to the front allow follow ups to several wrist locks.

Hereís an application you may not have seen before. It takes you through the first four movements that you described above.

Against a right strike of someone directly in front, when the opponentís right foot is forward.

Just like the kata, start with the feet equidistant from the attacker. Pivot hard to the left with the left arm raised to block. Your fast turn drives your right foot slightly forward and slightly to the right, which gets you off the line, but keeps you in close enough to counter. If the person is not too tall, you use your elbow to strike to the head. (The right elbow in several Okinawan systems points to the front, not the side, as in Shito Ryu and Shotokan.). If the person is a lot taller, you probably canít reach with your elbow, so just extend your right hand higher, and hit him with the palm heel with your fingers facing back to you. Be sure to hit him as you turn. Donít turn and then swing your elbow/palm heel. By simultaneously blocking and striking, you can leverage your mass by hitting him as you turn.

Next as you pivot to the right, your goal is to lower his head. You use an arm bar and a simultaneous strike to the neck to drive his head down to the right.

For the arm bar, drop the left hand under the right arm, and when you rotate to the right, pin his right arm against your neck for an arm bar. You want the forearm against your neck, with your right arm raking the triceps tendon, rolling it up and over, then using your mass through the turn to do the arm bar. You use only your left arm for this.

Simultaneously, you strike the right side of the opponentís neck with your right shuto. You should drive through and drive the head down. Once the strike hits, the rest is more of a push as you proceed through the turn. Pushing down with knife hand initially, and then pulling down and back with the fingers through the end. Again, you leverage the mass of your body by using the turn to apply mass to the target.

For the movement forward (scissors block) you can execute a double arm bar to bring his even head down further. As you charge forward towards your opponentís right shoulder with your left leg, you drop your weight. The right ulna (outside forearm bone) rakes hard down the triceps tendon (extending no more the two inches from his elbow.) Simultaneously, the left arm hammers, pushes deep into the arm-shoulder junction. The key is to use the mass of your dropping weight to drop your mass on these two points. Donít try to muscle with your arms. It doesn't work against a big guy.

For most people, you can get the right arm nearly vertical at this point. (Be careful with older students, especially older men with big shoulders. Some can have very limited mobility in their shoulders.)

With a near vertical arm, you have lowered the head just about as far as you can with one move. Once you have dropped the head, there are plenty of options. Kicks or knees are pretty effective (as the back right leg moves forward). I like to drive my right thigh under his head and reach straight up with a smooth circular movement. Then I bring my right elbow straight down with an elbow to the back of the neck, again dropping my weight. (A little upwards movement between stances is needed.)

As you release his arm with your right to do this, his natural impulse is to rise once the heavy arm pressure is partially relieved. So the attacker may respond by forcing the back of his neck up fast and hard into your rapidly descending elbow.

There are all sorts of finishes. I like to transition right into a guillotine choke. (Right arm wraps clockwise around the neck, pulling the back/top of it tightly up into your right armpit. The left hand grabs the right wrist right at your navel. Lay back, and wrap your legs around him as he falls on top.

When training with your partner, you do this slowly. Completely relax, then inhale and raise your hips, driving your heels into him to enable the hip raise, while pulling up with both hands pressing your radius against his trachea. Make sure he knows to tap. Most people respond VERY quickly to this one.

A note of caution. This may not work for women against men a lot taller and heavier. I am a male, 5'8" and weigh 175 lbs. In a seminar I was teaching, I had an opportunity to try it on someone 6'6" and 330lbs, with not all that much fat. I felt like a fly on a rhinoceros.

In these cases, you can modify the combination to follow up the initial counterstrike with a groin kick, if the attacker's right leg is forward. This could double a big guy over enough to do the arm bar. Also, if he is too tall, skip hitting him in the neck, it is too high up. On the arm bar, you can grab your left wrist with your right to use both arms as you crank through the turn.

The key to success is to have no time between the turns to the right and left. No pause, no wait, just two rapid-fire turns.

I request one small faver. Please don't bring this combination into the dojo until you have practiced it with a partner at least 100 times. I think one goal is to bring in techniques that you have confidence will work, and that requires that you work out the kinks. It is often best not to bring in half-baked ideas into the dojo to show people. And if you haven't practiced this combo 100 times, you just might look foolish. There is a lot to it.

[This message has been edited by kakushiite (edited 07-28-2004).]

#106001 - 08/01/04 03:59 PM Re: Pinan Yondan bunkai

Quegi - I too am new to these forums, and am finding I enjoy them very much.

I am a student of Okinawan Shorin-ryu, and although there are always many applications to kata, this is the "formal" bunkai that we apply to those moves you noted.

First, the downward sissor block (I assume you mean going up the middle of the kata); in our bunkai, we use this as a defense to a kick. The sissor captures the kick in the intersection of the arms, then the next move, which in the kata is moving forward into a reinforced outside block, is actually the lifting of the retained leg and throwing of the attacker. Please be very careful when trying this for the first time, as you can send your attacker flying backwards landing on his/her neck or head (almost happended to me).

As far as the middle movements where a side-hammer is thrown when both hands are at one side, in our bunkai, the side hammer is blocking a high punch while striking the bicep at the same time. Immediately after the side-bar is a kick to the ribs (as GoldenCrane states above). While the arm is extended, the shuffle is sliding in to your opponent so you can get the hand/arm behind the opponents head for an elbow strike.

Our application of the 3 reinforced blocks is simply defending 3 punches while advancing. However, I like GoldenCrane's application below. This diversity reinforces the many different applications that kata makes available to us.

Also, our bunkai differs somewhat from our oyo bunkai.

#106002 - 09/14/04 02:16 AM Re: Pinan Yondan bunkai
reaperblack Offline

Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 558
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
ok, hre is my bunkai for the first few movements. This is for the shorinkan version of pinan yondan. First the the two knife hands to the right: The hand above the head grabs an incoming right hand (at the wrist), whether this be a downward weapon stike or a punch to the face, etc. The left hand strikes into the armpit, as you turn to the other side you are performing a throw, providing you don't cheat on your footwork. The other side can be seen as the same technique to start, but without the throw. Instead you are pulling your attacker forward and to your left with your step and low block motion. Where you hyperextend the elbow.


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