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#105783 - 03/29/05 06:03 PM Re: Matsumura Seito karate
Multiversed Offline
Banned

Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 642
Loc: Sa, Tx. USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Harijin:
I believe I just made the comment that a certain short list of people approved (at one point) by Kuda-shinshii as those in whom he had confidence in teaching what he taught has long since expanded (by about 15 yrs, by my reckoning). By making that distinction, however, I am not saying that either of these people have been taken off any such list; having trained with Greg in the past, I know how skillful he is.

My teacher is currently Kuda Tomosada-shinshii, Kuda Yuichi-shinshii's son and successor.

Thanks for the continuing distraction, Mr.
Seer.

-Everett
[/QUOTE]

Happy to dis-tract. From what I've seen that list is still very short. Oh and guess who one of Greg's main teachers was? That's a-right-- Ron Lindsey Shinshii. How' bout dat? Go figure! Later Mr. Kirkmont [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG].



[This message has been edited by Multiversed (edited 03-29-2005).]

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#105784 - 03/30/05 05:52 PM Re: Matsumura Seito karate
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Multiversed:
Happy to dis-tract. From what I've seen that list is still very short. Oh and guess who one of Greg's main teachers was? That's a-right-- Ron Lindsey Shinshii. How' bout dat? Go figure! Later Mr. Kirkmont [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG].

Of course "the list" is still short... attrition takes its toll over the years... but it is no longer limited to the individuals to whom you make mention. And as far as Greg & Ron's relationship is concerned, Ron has always out-ranked Greg and was at various times the USA director for Kenshinkan and Matsumura Kenpo, but he was far from one of his main teachers. He had much more training time with Kise-shinshii and Kuda-shinshii by far.

BTW, what's the "Mr. Kirkmont" thing...???

[This message has been edited by Multiversed (edited 03-29-2005).]
[/QUOTE]

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#105785 - 04/03/05 06:34 AM Re: Matsumura Seito karate
Multiversed Offline
Banned

Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 642
Loc: Sa, Tx. USA
Kirk mont=Church hill

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#105786 - 04/03/05 06:41 AM Re: Matsumura Seito karate
Multiversed Offline
Banned

Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 642
Loc: Sa, Tx. USA
Oh and concerning who Greg's teachers were. These are his own words from a Matsumura Kenpo website---

Name : Greg Ohl
URL :
EMAIL ADDRESS : Gregohl2003@Yahoo.com
Do you practice Matsumura Kenpo? : Yes
If yes, who did you train with? : Hohan Soken, Yuichi Kuda, Fusei Kise, Ronnie Lindsay
Comments: : Greetings to all fmy ormer students. I am glad to see there is still interest in true Okinawan karate-do. I would enjoy hearing from anyone that trained with me


I am real, and I'm telling you the truth about what you may not know. I AM a current student under Shinshii Lindsey, so I get it from the source.

Have a good week.

Bryan Cyr



[This message has been edited by Multiversed (edited 04-03-2005).]

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#105787 - 04/03/05 10:13 PM Re: Matsumura Seito karate
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Multiversed:
Oh and concerning who Greg's teachers were. These are his own words from a Matsumura Kenpo website---

Name : Greg Ohl
URL :
EMAIL ADDRESS : Gregohl2003@Yahoo.com
Do you practice Matsumura Kenpo? : Yes
If yes, who did you train with? : Hohan Soken, Yuichi Kuda, Fusei Kise, Ronnie Lindsay
Comments: : Greetings to all fmy ormer students. I am glad to see there is still interest in true Okinawan karate-do. I would enjoy hearing from anyone that trained with me


I am real, and I'm telling you the truth about what you may not know. I AM a current student under Shinshii Lindsey, so I get it from the source.

Have a good week.

[This message has been edited by Multiversed (edited 04-03-2005).]
[/QUOTE]

Ah, thanks for the placename lession...

Anyway, at the risk of dragging this out for other people to roll their eyes at, your information is all fine and dandy, but it's dated and either taken out of context or too much is read into into it.

BTW, which Matsumura Kenpo website did you get that from? There's only one officially sanctioned site (for whatever that's worth), and this excerpt is not on it. I have spoken at length to Greg on several occasions on his time on Okinawa, the personages with whom he trained, and all the ugly politics that came up along the way up until his reisgnation from organizations due to the latter. So I've got some "inside track" info as well.

Also, I'm not (nor have I meant to) implying that you are not "real". You have a good week as well.

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#105788 - 04/04/05 12:57 AM Re: Matsumura Seito karate
Multiversed Offline
Banned

Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 642
Loc: Sa, Tx. USA
I can't remember which site and it doesn't matter. Those are his words and his email address. He posted on that site regardless if its snactioned or not. Gimme a break. Look I don't doubt you know what you're doing. Regardless of politics there is one guy who stands above all that crap with the knowledge AND ABILITY to make what he knows really work. On top of that he is a college educated man, former starting fullback for Texas A&M (something you limeys might not know about) and he was a Golden Glove Heavyweight champ of Central Texas. So he can really fight. You can't say that about most karate guys no matter their lineage or knowledge or familial inheritance.

The same can be said for his students. All of them can really use their waza and they practice like you can only imagine. So correspond while I get stuff live, and stop with the facetious attitude. You haven't posted anything convincing in here about technique and seito knowledge with the exception of the term "gammaku". I'd have to see your kata in order to tell whether or not your umuiri was showing, If you're anything like Koeppel, Hunnicut, Garret or any of those characters, then I'd probably just laugh.

Later.

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#105789 - 04/04/05 12:04 AM Re: Matsumura Seito karate
Multiversed Offline
Banned

Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 642
Loc: Sa, Tx. USA
Here's the website. Is it sanctioned? Hahaha!
http://geocities.yahoo.com/gb/view?member=rohai.geo&.start=1

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#105790 - 04/04/05 05:32 PM Re: Matsumura Seito karate
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Multiversed:
I can't remember which site and it doesn't matter. Those are his words and his email address. He posted on that site regardless if its snactioned or not. Gimme a break. Look I don't doubt you know what you're doing. Regardless of politics there is one guy who stands above all that crap with the knowledge AND ABILITY to make what he knows really work. On top of that he is a college educated man, former starting fullback for Texas A&M (something you limeys might not know about) and he was a Golden Glove Heavyweight champ of Central Texas. So he can really fight. You can't say that about most karate guys no matter their lineage or knowledge or familial inheritance.

The same can be said for his students. All of them can really use their waza and they practice like you can only imagine. So correspond while I get stuff live, and stop with the facetious attitude. You haven't posted anything convincing in here about technique and seito knowledge with the exception of the term "gammaku". I'd have to see your kata in order to tell whether or not your umuiri was showing, If you're anything like Koeppel, Hunnicut, Garret or any of those characters, then I'd probably just laugh.
[/QUOTE]

Between my apparent facetiousness (?) and your inappropriately confrontational stance, I'd say we make a fine pair and are bordering on saying some very un-karate-like things to one another. I'll just bow out now before that happens and we both look like hypocrites. Glad I could be of assistance with a one-word Hogen lesson.

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#105791 - 04/09/05 03:39 PM Re: Matsumura Seito karate
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hey guys...
I'm just an Iowa farm boy that had the wonderful opportunity to train with some great karateka over the years. I was stunned to see Ron Lindsay and I as a point of controversy. I first met Ron in 1979 when I was trying to promote Shorin Ryu Matusmura Seito Karate in Minnesota.

I had left Okinawa for the last time in 1975 and we were trying to unify the American followers into a viable association. After a failed, but well meaning effort with SMOKA in 1976, I kept correspondence with Sensei Kise's secretary Ed Thompson. Ed transferred to the states and I took a road trip to Oklahoma to meet him. He was a serious man and a great promoter of Shorin Ryu Matsumura Seito. He steered me to Ron Lindsay.

After leaving Oklahoma, I drove to Bastrop, Tx to meet Ron Lindsay, another Soken and Kise student. I was very much impressed by Mr. Lindsay's ability to translate the theory of Shorin Ryu into usable techniques. I attend one of his classes at a Library in Bastrop and was invited to engage in a kumite match. I believe that this was a validation method used by Ron to checkout other karateka. To say the least, we knocked over furniture, scared the sh*t out of his student, and left each other visibly wounded. I was very impressed with Ron's ability to incorporate body change into his actual sparring. I have never, in thirty years of karate training, had a tougher opponent. Ron later complimented me on the "spiritedness" of the match. I felt the same way and left Bastrop knowing I had met a true American karateka.

Following that visit, I served as a regional director of the karate association Ron was heading for Fusei Kise. We talked on the phone on a regular basis. Ron spread the word in Texas and conducted training camps that were widely attended. I operated a number of schools in Minnesota and hosted Ron on a great visit in the early 1980s. Ron was highly positive about our efforts and provided support as our national director.

When political crap caused us to leave the leadership of Master Kise, I put my confidence in Ron, who negotiated a new alliance with Master Kuda. I supported his efforts and kept my schools aligned with the new Matsumura Seito Kenpo assn.

It would be very disappointing to me to hear of any students influence by me be at odds with students of Ron. Those of you who have studied with either of us have learned the way O'Sensei Soken taught us. I place Ron Lindsay in the top category of karateka that I ever had the opportunity to train with...and would admonish those concerned about he and I to focus on their own training. Take the art farther than we did.

Greg Ohl
Minneapolis, MN
Gregohl2003@Yahoo.com

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#105792 - 04/09/05 05:55 PM Re: Matsumura Seito karate
Multiversed Offline
Banned

Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 642
Loc: Sa, Tx. USA
Thank you for the post Sensei Ohl.

I have been training with Ronnie for 6 years now, after coming from a base of Shorinkan, Judo, GJJ/CJJ and boxing. My brother and I searched in vain for over 12 years to find a good Okinawan karate dojo in the San Antonio area. There were/are none. We were pointed in Sensei Lindsey's direction by another Kobayashi practitioner from Houston.

Bastrop is about 90 minutes from where we live and our initial meeting with him was a lot less eventful than yours. He did show us some ti/tuite, and answered any questions we had about his ideas on fighting and karate. He talked at length about the Okinawan karate he knew and taught, and we, of our experiences in the arts while in the Philippines. A quick visit turned into a 3 hour stay. When it was all said and done we asked him to train us and haven't looked back since.

Coming from a decent MAs foundation I think I can spot what is legit and what is "Hope Ryu" or "Dollar-do". I would have to agree with you that as a karate man I have seen none like Lindsey. His ability and knowledge forged by his dedication and diligence for over 35 years now, has made him IMO one of the top 5 karate sensei in the world.

Another interesting thing to note is that his karate and his karate knowledge and accumen have increased over the years. When you guys met he was still young. Those who have been training with him since the 80's have said that his ability and knowledge are even greater now than when he returned from Okinawa or when he ran the various organizations.

I find it entertaining that many so-called sensei, masters, soke and GMs are filthy rich or famous with just rudimentary skills or knowledge of their karate, yet Sensei Lindsey still lives in Bastrop, still runs his classes out of his backyard dojo and still teaches classes for 30 bucks a month. I think he might have ~10 regular students at the most. I don't think that the MAs powers that be have ever heard of him or featured him in any MAs periodical.

Such a shame. Their loss not mine. Anyway, he does have a few very, very dedicated students who will perpetuate O'Sensei Soken's karate principles as well as the principles Ronnie has added to his brand of Matumura Seito.

I know I'm the only one of his students that gets on these sometimes idiotic forums to challenge false claims and any disparaging remarks folks may have concerning Okinawan karate and Matsumura Seito in particular. Everyone always tells me it's a waste of time, but I don't think defending what you know is right is ever a waste, and I enjoy educating people even if they accept what I'm saying or not.

I do know that this little conversation with Mr. Churchill led to a new story, a piece of modern karate lore [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] and a personal post from one of the best Okinawan karate-ka in the world. Sorry to use your name without actually knowing you, but Sensei Lindsey has spoken very highly of you in the past. He did tell me you were once a student of his, but left it at that. I really appreciate the details you added.

Thank you once again Sensei Ohl. Now I'm gonna go train.

Sincerely,
Bryan Cyr

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